The Fundamentals of Conversion Rate Optimization- Turning Visitors Into Customers
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[00:00:00] Hi everyone. I'm Pip from C more Digital Media. You're listening to Know How Marketing Lab podcast. This podcast brings together different experts in marketing from our Facebook group, Cyberpunk Geeks Marketing Mixer. Each week we get on here and we talk about something, search marketing like Google ads or SEO, social media marketing from Facebook to TikTok or website marketing.
[00:00:23] If you're a aspiring marketer, a business owner or entrepreneur, this Podcast for you. We're going to share the best SEO search, social and website strategies. We share tips and hacks, Google ad strategies, what's going on in the current market. Each week we discuss something exciting and awesome in marketing.
[00:00:46] Phelan: There it is that time on Thursday, it's time for a geek speak. And today we are talking about conversion rate optimization and getting the most out of your website. And [00:01:00] of course, my name is Phelan with C more Digital Media.
[00:01:03] Rina: And I'm Reena Little from Littleworks Indie Media.
[00:01:06] Phelan: Awesome. And, okay. So today we're talking about conversion rate optimization.
[00:01:11] Phelan: And which is really important, especially when you've got your ads humming along and you're, but you're not getting any leads, you're not making any sales. And then this is going to be, going through what you could do to, signals that you need to change things up and also signals that or tips and tricks and that kind of stuff as well.
[00:01:31] Phelan: Yeah. And so I guess I'm going to start with just like a definition of conversion rate optimization, which is the number of conversions. So that's people that fill out a form click the telephone call, subscribe subscribe. That's when it's a little less for me or make a sale, right?
[00:01:49] Phelan: E commerce purchase, right? And so you're taking that number and you divide it by the number of sessions. So you're getting a rate of
[00:01:56] Rina: sessions. Yeah.
[00:01:57] Phelan: Yeah. Yeah. So website sessions.
[00:01:59] Rina: [00:02:00] All right. Can I just jump in there? Cause I look at it slightly differently and I just want to put in a couple of little fine tunes in there.
[00:02:07] Rina: So for me, conversions is whatever it is that you set, because you do have to do that in Google. You work with your provider or you work with tag manager and you set up what your conversions actually are. So you get to decide what those key actions are on your website. And as Phelan pointed out, there are a few to choose from.
[00:02:28] Rina: You might have some that are different. And that's totally fine. And then conversions also. So conversions are what happen on your website. And to me, those are the most important conversions. And I think Phelan, you'll agree with me on that. And then there are these conversions. This conversion that that Facebook ads and Google ads organizes.
[00:02:48] Rina: So Google ads can actually track the conversions right on the website. Sometimes you can look at Facebook insights or LinkedIn I add information and it will tell you conversions from an ad perspective, which is slightly [00:03:00] different. So if you set up your add to be a traffic campaign, then it will organize conversions according to how many people actually went to your website, not the actions that they took on your website.
[00:03:12] Rina: So it was pretty important to look at those two things as separate things, but related because you have two pieces to conversion. In my mind, you've got, what is the ad doing on your website or whatever. And for Phelan, because you're mostly working in Google ads, it's more closely related, like the Google.
[00:03:31] Rina: Ads and the conversion track is very closely related than those two pieces. But if you're looking at Facebook ads, those two things can be looked at separately. But what you look at in your ads is going to be similar to see. Can I just continue on for a little bit and then you can jump in?
[00:03:48] Phelan: Sure. With, I just want to add one caveat. It's not just on the website as well. You can have. Actions or the phone calls directly from the ad. So they never actually check your website. So you can [00:04:00] even do stuff that they can track stuff that's even before you get to your website. And they can also track the length of that call.
[00:04:05] Phelan: So I have clients that it doesn't, it has to be a 60 second length phone call in order for it to count. And so that, cause that's really important. Cause they had to get a lot of junk. So yeah, so
[00:04:16] Rina: yeah, so you basically have to understand what your ads are doing and then what's happening on your website to really actually look at conversions in any kind of meaningful way.
[00:04:26] Rina: That's basically the bottom line. So basically. What the way that I, and I like, I do like to look at it. The two sections of separately. I like to look at I like to test my ads first. And again, Facebook is a little bit different than Google ads, but in Facebook, I'll test things in a particular order for my whole campaign.
[00:04:44] Rina: So I'll start with the. The photos, because that's the most immediate thing that people see. So I'll test a bunch of different photos until I lock one down and get the right of the conversion rate, the click through rate that I'm looking for. And then I will a bump up at least, and then I'll look [00:05:00] for the headlines and I'll look for another bump up and then I'll, and I'll test those headlines and then I'll also test the copy and I'll look for which one performs the best.
[00:05:09] Rina: And then finally you get the best ad that is converting now on your. Traffic traffic campaign, that ad campaign, you're going to want to be getting anywhere I like to try and aim for anywhere around 3% rate click through rate to get there on a very targeted. audience. So the broader the audience, that number goes down a little bit.
[00:05:29] Rina: I usually find, but the more specific your audience is, the bigger that click through rate can be. And then you need to do the same thing. So let's say you've got all those people clicking through to your page and they're getting there and then nothing's happening. You're not making any sales. You're not getting anything to happen.
[00:05:46] Rina: You need to Go and test that landing page too. So you're going to want to test again, the imagery, usually my imagery on the ad and the landing page match at that point, but sometimes that's not going to work as [00:06:00] well. So you test the imagery, you can test the headline and you can test your body copy and make sure that you have lots of opportunities for that.
[00:06:09] Rina: Purchase or field button, whatever it is that you're trying to collect and and and then you want to look at what that what's happening on that page. And we use a lot of little techniques, don't we, Phelan, on how to figure out what's happening on that page.
[00:06:24] Phelan: Yeah. So one of the big ones, a big tool that I'm a proponent of is Microsoft Clarity.
[00:06:28] Phelan: So it's cheaper than Hotjar. And now also they just came out two weeks ago with an integration with Google ads. So they divide out your campaigns with like sentiment analysis. So I haven't got enough data to really be like. This is the best thing ever, but it's a really, it makes sense to me that you would have like this analysis that's going through and being able to be like, Hey, this campaign is actually doing really well here's some recordings of people converting.
[00:06:54] Phelan: And then that makes sense to me because Microsoft Clarity is, can be a bit dry when you're [00:07:00] trying to go through individuals. It's useful to look at because it does track things like rage clicks.
[00:07:04] Rina: Oh, I don't find it dry at all. I find it actually super interesting. This is one of my favorite new tools too.
[00:07:10] Rina: And so when you're testing your headline image and copy, sometimes without experience you don't always know how you're doing with that. You might not get the number to move very high in any way, or it might just stay the same. But if you look at Microsoft Clarity and hot jar, because let's just.
[00:07:28] Rina: Define that for a bit. Those are our software that you attach to your website, and it actually tracks the user interactions with your website. I also don't use hot jar, but for different reasons. It's I believe. Last time I looked, it was a plug in that you put onto your website, and it's heavy and messes with the core vitals.
[00:07:48] Rina: So I also like Microsoft Clarity a lot, and you can watch it. Actual individual interactions and it's super cool because you can watch their little cursor go down the page and where they're stopping and [00:08:00] you can even see where they're rage clicking. You can see where they think is, and rage clicking is like where someone thinks there's a button and there is no button to click.
[00:08:09] Rina: So it gives you an opportunity to adjust that ad. Or sorry, that element on your home page or landing page or wherever it is, so that it doesn't look like a button and they're not like getting stuck on there going, why can't I get what I want? And then you can see where they actually drop off. Did they read the whole thing?
[00:08:29] Rina: Do you have too much copy there before you have a buy button or, try less copy, all of those things is the copy clear and are the benefits. organized there, but you can literally see where they drop off. And I think one of the most frustrating things, which I haven't figured out yet is when they actually fill in the contact us form.
[00:08:51] Rina: And then for whatever reason, they don't hit send. And I'm like, why would you take the time to fill in? And it's happened a few times on one of my landing pages of [00:09:00] late few times where they fill in that contact us form and they do not hit click, they go away. So it's like, all right, so maybe A phone call happened or a colleague came in the office or something happened and they left suddenly.
[00:09:13] Rina: So do I need a form that collects the information, lets them come back and not have to fill the whole thing in again? That might be an option. So you get to really see how people interact with your content and and where you're losing them because that can give you insight on, on what the issue is rather than just.
[00:09:30] Rina: Throwing darts at the wall and hoping something is going to make it in the vicinity of your target.
[00:09:35] Phelan: Yeah, no, I totally agree with you. No, I do like that. Sorry. I guess I should rephrase that I don't what I find dry is when you go through 10 to 20 of them and they're all yeah and it gets repetitive and you're just Okay, I'm hoping for some deeper insights here other than the person waved around on the website and left and you're just like, yeah, doesn't really tell me as much as because it's doesn't have as much as like you said they click on something, and it doesn't do anything.
[00:09:59] Phelan: And so then you're like, [00:10:00] Oh, I should add a thing. Yeah.
[00:10:03] Rina: Yeah, and so actually one of the things about I wanted to slip in there was that When you get quick backs, that's this is also where it's good So rage clicking is a really good one to know about but quick backs Which means somebody goes to landing page and then they leave quite quickly You can see at what point down the page they actually left.
[00:10:22] Rina: And then usually that's an indication that what you're saying on your ad isn't matching the information that's on the landing page in my experience. And so we have to watch that. And we've all done quick backs because we've all fallen for clickbait on social media, where we go click, Oh, I want to know that salacious detail.
[00:10:40] Rina: And you click over and then that detail is actually not there. The promise of what you're. Deliver, supposed to be delivering is not fulfilled and that's a quick back. So that can be super helpful in organizing your information.
[00:10:53] Phelan: Yeah, exactly. And so I think that, yeah it's definitely one that I one other way that I look at it when we're talking [00:11:00] about like the click throughs and like matching everything is if they're all of a sudden the click through rate doesn't match the rate of the conversion rate.
[00:11:08] Phelan: So if there's a huge drop off and the ratio is not the same that to me tells me that the landing page is not doing What the ads doing because the ad is obviously compelling people to go and click on it. And then whatever's on the page is not matching that. So you can go back and then say Oh, what's not working there?
[00:11:26] Phelan: The other thing I like to do as well as you can also really filter down in. Microsoft Clarity, so you can filter for only people that came from an ad, and then you can only see those types of people. You can also just do the landing page itself, like only show me a recording where they visited my landing page.
[00:11:46] Phelan: And so you can see only that, and so you can really focus in.
[00:11:51] Rina: Yeah. And one of the other things that you can do is see, you can see if they're not making the purchase, but lots of people are spending time on that landing [00:12:00] page. And they leave the landing page. Where are they going after? Are they going to another page on your website?
[00:12:05] Rina: Is there are there too many links on your landing page? Is there a link that takes you off of the landing page? Do we want, and do we want that? So sometimes if you're doing top funnel work, okay. And you're asking for a sale on the landing page and you feel like you're getting a lot of people moving through your site instead, that could indicate that your targeting is not very good on your ad because you're getting top funnel.
[00:12:28] Rina: So top funnel top funnel refers to people that might understand that they have a problem, but they don't, they're not aware of you and your solution yet. So they, they will circle around and do a little bit of research on this. On this on this topic, but they won't make a purchase.
[00:12:42] Rina: So if that's the case, then sometimes you just need to fix your targeting or your messaging on your ad to match to match what somebody who already knows about you and is familiar, wants to make a sale. Sometimes you just need to match that messaging up with your targeting to get the right [00:13:00] results.
[00:13:00] Rina: And Pip says, hi, I love that. We can see that now. How did that happen?
[00:13:05] Phelan: I clicked it onto the broadcast. Oh,
[00:13:07] Rina: that's very good. I like that.
[00:13:09] Phelan: Yeah. Yes. And hi Pip. So one other report that goes off of what you just said that really helps with that, that I've seen before is if you go into Google analytics and you have your.
[00:13:21] Phelan: Say you've got your conversion all set up. What you can do is there's two different reports. There's pages and screens and then top landing pages. Because what you can do is you can get a report of maybe your top landing page is not the one that's converting. So there's still a conversion that's associated with that page as the first entry point.
[00:13:38] Phelan: But when you go to pages and screens, it's actually a different page. So that's another way that you can yes,
[00:13:42] Rina: that's a good point. Very good point.
[00:13:44] Phelan: Yeah,
[00:13:45] Rina: so capturing the sale or the conversion at a later spot on your website. So yeah,
[00:13:50] Phelan: and so
[00:13:50] Rina: yeah,
[00:13:52] Phelan: so you can use that as I like to check that because there might be a differential between the two.
[00:13:58] Phelan: And so if there is, then that should [00:14:00] indicate, then you can go into Microsoft Clarity and be like, Hey, any person that landed on this page show me their journey. And then that way you can find out like, oh and there's also other metadata you can. Use with that as well. So location targeting device targeting, maybe it's something on mobile that mobile, it takes too long to scroll, there's different ways to look
[00:14:19] Rina: at it.
[00:14:20] Rina: Yeah, so and that's a really important part is that if you've made your landing page all beautiful on your desktop while you're working on your desktop Make sure you're looking at it on the mobile because especially with WordPress sites if you're organizing on WordPress and You might find that and I'd found this the other day.
[00:14:39] Rina: So I was testing created a new page And then I looked at it on mobile, and because I had put like the text in a very beautiful spot next to a tall image over here, that meant that this space above the text was blank. So on the mobile version, it looked like the page was finished because [00:15:00] there was too much space between scrolling.
[00:15:01] Rina: So I just had Josh configure that for mobile better, style it for mobile better, so that and I think that experience wasn't there, but lots of people don't think about checking their work on mobile, and I think more and more it's important, especially if you know that you have about half of your users on mobile, which again Google Analytics will tell you that if you look.
[00:15:24] Phelan: And even Microsoft Clarity, right? Because it identifies the device. And so they, they have a metadata there. So you can see the recordings to see how other people are interacting desktop versus mobile. And yeah, it's definitely super important to make sure your CSS styling is good on is good for mobile on mobile's own sake.
[00:15:44] Phelan: And yeah so yeah, it's definitely one of the powerful tools, I would say, is definitely the Microsoft Clarity. It's been a bit of a game changer of recent note for us of just being, yeah, of just because that's the black box y area that and you're right, Hotjar, the [00:16:00] difference, so one of the big differences between Hotjar and Microsoft Clarity is Hotjar also does review gathering.
[00:16:06] Phelan: So that's probably where it slows down your website, whereas Microsoft just doesn't even bother with any of that stuff. Yeah. So
[00:16:12] Rina: you don't want anything to slow down your website because that will be an impediment for your SEO and your user experience, because what happens if your site is heavy when somebody Clicks a link to go to your site takes a little extra time to load and you lose people in that loading time load time and Then Google figures out that you're getting traffic to the site and then you're losing them right away.
[00:16:35] Rina: So there's something wrong there They'll identify that as a negative experience and then they'll downgrade your organic SEO So it's super important when you run ads and this I've seen this before, and you can tell me what you think feeling, but even though everyone says that as does not affect your organic your organic ranking or your organic traffic, whenever I start ads with a client, I noticed a [00:17:00] really good uptick.
[00:17:01] Rina: Inorganic reach for clients in addition to the ads. And I think that's because you're sending all that traffic there. If it's well targeted traffic, they stay and they enjoy the content and then that sort of. Bumps you up. Have you noticed that when you start with new clients?
[00:17:21] Phelan: I haven't really thought of it like that I haven't really noticed it per se.
[00:17:27] Phelan: I wouldn't be surprised if there's Unintended coordination. I don't like not in an explicit fashion. Of course the dog's no
[00:17:34] Rina: definitely not explicit But I mean i've even gotten up to 30 percent increase in organic on the months that I start ads And and I feel like it's pretty consistent to the uptick.
[00:17:45] Rina: I've always checked for that because I found it really interesting at the beginning of my ads journey.
[00:17:51] Phelan: Yeah. One thing that are probably that just comes to mind is probably that Google has a better understanding of your website because of the ads. [00:18:00] And unintentionally, because you're putting in these keywords that are associated with this website.
[00:18:05] Phelan: And so then all of a sudden they're like, Oh, so that's what your website's about. So it's my, my gut. Would be that like they don't mean to it's just like their systems learn more. Yeah. No, I have
[00:18:14] Rina: Yeah, I agree. They do not mean to as there's those two things are supposed to be completely separate, but in my mind, they're quite related.
[00:18:21] Phelan: Yeah, they're
[00:18:22] Rina: just I
[00:18:22] Phelan: want to say one thing. Sorry about that. He said site speed. So I just wanted to say one thing about that is that Amazon Swen. Like an inordinate sum of money to speed up their website because they saw for every one second, a faster load time. So a 1 percent increase in conversions.
[00:18:39] Rina: Oh, wow. That's a really great stat to know putting that in my back pocket.
[00:18:43] Phelan: Yeah,
[00:18:44] Rina: that is true. I have that issue myself. If I go to something, I'm scrolling around on social media and all of a sudden I, or on Google or whatever it is. And I see an ad that I like, I click it. If I can't get to that page. Fast enough.
[00:18:56] Rina: I'm gone. I'm out of there. Yeah. And
[00:18:59] Phelan: so [00:19:00] also you just find it annoying. If I'm on a website, I'm just like, come on, load. Like I actually want to read what you have to say and it's not time loading up. I'm just like. Come on, like you could do better and
[00:19:11] Rina: yeah, so just a couple of little pieces that I've gathered and we didn't really talk about this on our meeting the other day.
[00:19:17] Rina: So surprise, but I think that 2 of the things that are super important with conversions and organizing your conversions is understanding your messaging and your targeting. And I think that I had a client once and I think this is so super relevant is that I had a client, I, this comes up. A lot is I get the conversation.
[00:19:35] Rina: Oh, we've tried ads and it doesn't work for our business. And and we had one particular client where, and I always explain the ads are only as good as the person who was doing them, or the experience of the person that's doing them. And often they're doing them themselves or they have somebody that's super cheap and, I'm not saying that you have to pay, you don't actually have to pay a lot to get really good Google ads or Facebook ads happening, but you do have to [00:20:00] pay somebody who's got experience because even though there are all these wizards to set you up and things are fairly straightforward and you can just hit that boost button.
[00:20:09] Rina: I do not recommend hitting the Facebook or Instagram boost button. That is the biggest way to waste money. Even if it's only 30 bucks, it's just a waste. It doesn't really. Work that well,
[00:20:20] Phelan: I've had one counterexample for that. Okay, roll me up the absolute wall. It was okay It was a farm and was a meadery that was on the island Yeah, I ran ads that were specifically supposed to be get people to get them more foot traffic would not work But she boosted a post and they would they said they'd sell out in the week Okay,
[00:20:41] Rina: so my question is when you were doing the local ads was that on Google?
[00:20:46] Phelan: No, it was facebook ads. It was like they're the facebook ads manager
[00:20:49] Rina: interesting. Okay. That's interesting I'd like to look at that case study a little bit more deeply, but of course there are always, you know I
[00:20:59] Phelan: [00:21:00] totally agree,
[00:21:00] Rina: but I wanted to emphasize that this was a company that sold tools and and they had an online store and they had an in person store they were doing about 55, 000 35 to 55, 000 and they were going up and down on online sales only.
[00:21:19] Rina: And I convinced him to do a really small, he was really fixated on social media, which I do a proprietary blend of Facebook ads with Google ads. That worked together in a very particular way. And and I convinced him to do a really small, just 500 bucks. That's all we needed. And we grew that every month it went up, there was no up and down.
[00:21:41] Rina: And even after Christmas, the January and February after Christmas were higher than Christmas. We grew that those sales to 125, 000 in 12 months. And And that was somebody who was absolutely resistant to doing Google ads and only did them because I gave them a very small package. Don't [00:22:00] worry if your first try is not working out.
[00:22:03] Rina: You do need to give it at least three months to figure out Google ads and you should probably give it a little bit more time on Facebook, the same, about the same amount of time on Facebook. You want a minimum of 500 on each platform because. It's really hard to do much on Facebook without that kind of ad spend.
[00:22:23] Rina: And you should be seeing some results within the three months that show, show good results. And it can work for all sorts of businesses, so products are great. We use a different technique for services. Phelan. Local services are very good on, on ads and tickets can be, I've also seen them flop.
[00:22:46] Rina: So it really depends because the ticket, the spread of the ticket price, and it depends on how many. Events you're holding as to whether it's going to work or not. And and then the last part is when it comes to photos don't be [00:23:00] descriptive. Lots of people like to be illustrative on their photo selection, but things that convert better are photos.
[00:23:08] Rina: They're photos of. Of the business branded photos of people usually and so I don't really love stock photos or I love stock photos that don't really look like stock photos and animals and ones that'll pop out. Not everything that looks exactly like. Everything else. So those are my top, top things and the targeting is the most important aspect of all ads.
[00:23:32] Rina: People will forgive your artwork and your messaging. If your targeting is perfect.
[00:23:38] Phelan: Yeah, and I yeah, I would definitely agree targeting is the most important I would say also as part of that it's just understanding the business like knowing the business and then knowing how people are Engaging with it.
[00:23:52] Phelan: So like what keywords because like we've had clients that are like Yeah, no jargon. Yeah. Or [00:24:00] yeah, no technical jargon. They would
[00:24:04] Rina: just describe it
[00:24:06] Phelan: as what the actual thing is. And so you got to make sure that you have a blend of that because I've definitely had clients that were really dead set on.
[00:24:16] Phelan: Yeah. The keywords being these really technical ones when what was coming out in the search terms were not that it was very much people just using very different words to describe their own business and you have to meet people where they are because that's just the nature of, you're going to want to be very exact in your language and there's cases where you want to do that, but there's other times where it's just, they use a really basic term for it.
[00:24:38] Phelan: And that actually is just as good. So that's another one. I was just going to say as well there's, yeah. Plugins like W3TotalCache are a really good free plugin for WordPress that speeds up your website. There's other ones if you have Site, SiteGround has like their own inbuilt. One as well.
[00:24:56] Phelan: That's what's amazing. And was, it's the first [00:25:00] time
[00:25:01] Rina: I've heard says there's some recent issues of insight ground right now. I can't get into details because I can't remember them, but we need to look into that.
[00:25:10] Phelan: Yeah, I can hear Georgie there.
[00:25:13] Rina: I know. I'm sorry. It's not me. That's not my stomach. That's my dog.
[00:25:18] Rina: Or more, more accurately, it is somebody else's dog that I'm sitting next to. Okay. So the other thing that I wanted to say is go through your keywords regularly and see how they're performing and remove what's not working out. So Phelan, one thing that I like about working with you at Seymour Digital is with Seymour Digital.
[00:25:37] Rina: For my clients is that we sit down and we go through and discuss what's working and what's not and how we can improve things. And I really appreciate that. I don't like suppliers that I never hear from. And I don't like suppliers that report on the number of clicks they got on an ad. That's so meaningless.
[00:25:55] Rina: That if you're only getting that information, they haven't set up the goals [00:26:00] on Google analytics. They're only reporting from the ad account itself and it's not helpful.
[00:26:06] Phelan: Yeah. Cause one other one that goes with until you set up conversions, you don't get all these other really cool aspects like acquisition journey, where you can see all the steps that people take.
[00:26:16] Phelan: Like for an example I worked with a private school in East coast, United States. And. Parents would regularly like do up to 30 visits to their website from Google Organic, meaning that they type the school in and Google went to the site, looked around, and it was not uncommon at all for them to have 30 steps before the parent would come.
[00:26:37] Phelan: That's
[00:26:37] Rina: good to know. What good information is that? Yeah,
[00:26:40] Phelan: exactly. And so you can also see stuff about random parts in the journey, right? So we had people that were doing. Like I just saw one of them, a co working client that just came on board and I went straight there because they had their conversion set up and I looked and they were getting, or organic, MailChimp, [00:27:00] then like their own proprietary app was the final step in when they converted and so you could see all these like steps that people were taking along the journey, which is things that you're not going to get unless you've set up the conversions because that's the only way that Google tracks these things.
[00:27:12] Phelan: And so you want to have these set up just, yeah. And like meaningful, like we talked about at the start, like you got to identify the key actions on your website that this is a thing for example, that coworking space, you can download their app or you could fill out the form. What they really cared about is when you started paying them.
[00:27:28] Phelan: And so we looked at, like, when's that, how can we trigger that? All right. And so we're looking at a Zapier that connects to their Stripe account that sends a signal back to Google Analytics. Hey, this person converted.
[00:27:38] Rina: Yeah.
[00:27:39] Phelan: And these are more meaning what's the meaningful part and usually it's some sort of, people getting if you're a some sort of like home services, like you want someone filling out a form, but it's even more important that those people who actually went forward with your quote.
[00:27:55] Phelan: And so that's the most important part to me. And so yeah, and [00:28:00]
[00:28:00] Rina: actually that brings up a final good point is that tracking doesn't end at your website tracking ends after that sale and then it should be actually tracked in your CRM. Like what happens to that person that you've. Converted in whatever way, what happens to them after the fact because only then can you organize your cost per conversion and your your lifetime value of that customer, of your customers and the average sale, and all of that sort of really neat stuff that helps you identify what your marketing budget should be.
[00:28:34] Rina: To get those going.
[00:28:36] Phelan: And also your cost per acquisition, which Google and Facebook, absolutely. If you can calculate that number and tell them what the cost per acquisition is, they love you because that's what their systems really like working with. And then also really cool feature is HubSpot and what's that awful bloated one the CRM, the really big one.
[00:28:56] Phelan: Oh,
[00:28:58] Rina: Salesforce.
[00:28:58] Phelan: Yes. But [00:29:00] both of them have dedicated. So if someone actually goes through your sales process and becomes an actual paying client, that also sends a signal back to Google ads to say, Hey, find me more people like that. Yeah. They have a dedicated inbuilt Zapier has a connection, but it's really.
[00:29:15] Phelan: Fidgety. I've not been able to make it work.
[00:29:17] Rina: All right. So there's a good plug for, working with HubSpot or Salesforce that I didn't know about. I don't particularly like those giant CRMs, but that would give me, that gives me a whole other perspective, Phelan. So we should probably end it here because that was, we covered quite a bit more than what we actually even expected to, I think.
[00:29:35] Rina: And so thanks for joining us today. We are in the, the business marketing mixer, Facebook group, but you can come back wherever you've seen, wherever you're watching us now, you can come back every Thursday to see the next episode. And next week we've got Greg and Pip who will be talking about it's a guide to mastering local SEO with WordPress.
[00:29:55] Rina: So especially if you're a, have a brick and mortar store or a [00:30:00] service area, you want to definitely be on that call. So thanks for joining us. See you next time.
