Restream.io on 2024-11-21 at 11.00.28
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[00:00:00] Hi everyone. I'm Pip from C more Digital Media. You're listening to Know How Marketing Lab podcast. This podcast brings together different experts in marketing from our Facebook group, Cyberpunk Geeks Marketing Mixer. Each week we get on here and we talk about something, search marketing like Google ads or SEO, social media marketing from Facebook to TikTok or website marketing.
If you're a aspiring marketer, a business owner or entrepreneur, this podcast for you. We're going to share the best SEO search, social, uh, and website strategies. We share tips and hacks, Google ad strategies, what's going on in the current markets. Each week we discuss something exciting and awesome in marketing.
Phelan: So yeah, the, just to start hi, hello everyone. Hi everybody. It is it's that time of the week, it's time for Geek Speak. Today [00:01:00] we are talking about AI, how that's changing the face of marketing and what that means for people out there. It's true. And I I would say, Oh, I guess we should also introduce ourselves.
Pip: Yes. But I wanted to say first that you have to share it in the Facebook group, please. And artificial intelligence is revolutionizing and fundamentally transforming. Oh, look, I'm reading how businesses engage AI is revolutionizing marketing. And so we wanted to talk about that today. And we were in a.
Pip: Rather heated discussion before we got on here about I, so if you're joining us today, pipe up, say, hi, let us know if you're using AI. We're going to get into it. We know on the replay, make sure you say something. I'm sure people will be hopping in here in a minute or two. Yeah. And as long as you shared it, is it good?
Phelan: Yeah, it's been shared.
Pip: Yeah, today's a good one. It's a gooder. [00:02:00] Yeah. Cause we're talking all about I'm gonna try to find it. We're talking all about AI and I don't know if you've been using it. Have you, what have you used it for, Phelan?
Phelan: So a lot of the stuff that I've used it for is base first draft content creation the probably the best use case which i'll get into more in a bit is the microsoft clarity and getting it to summarize the screen recordings for me to make an actual step you know taking all these recordings that individually watching them would suck it can go through them and summarize how people were clicking on the website.
Phelan: So You But I would say just to circle back to what we opened the bit, I think that we look at how that's going to affect the markets and jobs, I think slightly differently. I think that Yes, we do. So I, I look at it as Which industry overall is going to get totally precaritized, which means that what they do is they fire everyone and then they rehire you as a prompt engineer.
Pip: [00:03:00] Ooh,
Phelan: a
Pip: prompt engineer. That's new.
Phelan: Yeah, that's, it's specific to dealing with AI and how to prompt it to get the response that you need. So the two biggest industries that's happened to is game development and support. Okay.
Pip: So far, yes,
Phelan: so
Pip: we're yeah,
Phelan: but they're on the edge, right? That's the whole reason is they were the ones that were already pushed for this And so what I my suspicion is that a lot of the other industries that you that we expect it's gonna tear through I think it will do it'll decimate in the most definitional sense Decimate is a as a Roman punishment that if their army failed or ran away You would form up and every tenth person would get killed You
Pip: Oh, okay.
Phelan: So decimate. Okay. Dessa meaning tent. Okay
Pip: so you think that, yeah, okay, so we have very different views because you're looking at from more of a political standpoint and I'm looking at it from a marketing standpoint. Oh, I'm blurry on [00:04:00] this. That's weird.
Phelan: On which?
Pip: Oh, on, in the interview window.
Pip: I'm just gonna make sure. You
Phelan: look fine on Facebook. Yeah,
Pip: Yeah. That's just very funny. Okay. I don't know. Yeah, so I'll just leave that. But okay, yes, AI is a lot, and looking at it from a political standpoint is It's important, every person that loses their job or everything that it changes affects a lot of people.
Pip: And it can be really exciting. And I think we, the people want to position ourselves where we win, right? Where we win, we have jobs, we work on things. That's why I've gotten really into it. I think it's really fascinating. And we wanted to talk all about what, what's going on.
Pip: What are you, so tell me what you're using it for. And then I'll tell you what I'm using it for. And if you're here joining us, pipe in, say hi. And if you're using AI, tell us what you're using it for, with, and yes, I have comments put up. I think I'm [00:05:00] organized. So Phelan, what are you using it for?
Phelan: Yeah, so I'll say the best use case for using AI is what it was originally intended for, which is regressive analytics. What I mean by that is you give it a big table of a bunch of data and say, find me some interesting points in here. And so that's what it's best use cases were originally.
Phelan: No. I mean that in the, sorry, in the sense, when I say that, I mean that in the sense of people who are AI engineers and what they say is the best use case for it. Okay. Because generative things, creating things it, Because it's built off of a regression model that just does a bunch of analysis on finding like little differences.
Phelan: It actually just averages things out. So when you get it to generate something, it's going to generate the average of that. Because what it was meant to do in the first place, which is reduce things to an average.
Pip: Okay, interesting. But it does a lot of things for us now. It is helping us write.
Pip: [00:06:00] It is, helping us analyze. It is it is doing it's helping us be faster. I'm more engaged in the sense that you have more time. It's more personalized. So the benefits are enhancing customer experience, and making better decisions. Now I haven't used every AI out there cause they're crazy right now, but we've created things like I on our website now, I don't think it's in the menu yet, but we've created it's something to help us when we do Google ads so we can show our clients.
Pip: Which is really exciting. And so how else are you using AI?
Phelan: I was going to get to the coding portion of it and getting it to write code. Which for the most part it's actually pretty good at doing that part. And the reason why is because it's you're giving it the parameter.
Phelan: There's a Pablo Picasso quote that I always think about when times like this where we're worried about AI stuff is that computers are useless. They can only give you [00:07:00] questions. They can only give you answers. Meaning that it can't generate the question or you're required in the loop to be able to think up the thing that they would need to actually give you the answer about.
Phelan: And
Pip: yeah, maybe, but you can ask a question. You can answer a question by asking a question which is what, yes. So there's a concept of the tail eating itself. I forget. There's an Orvoros. Yeah, Orvoros. However it does help with a lot of things. So before I'm, I don't think there's a doomsday.
Pip: So much as I think it's I think it can be very helpful to people. I just think people need to get on it and start using it and implementing it into their lives, versus shying away from it. But I've always thought that about technology. Cause I, I think you'll get left behind. And I think throughout time, jobs have changed.
Pip: People change what they do. So I would want to be a wielder of this, and try to understand it as much as possible. That's where my, my, my [00:08:00] theory is and where we should be putting our time and engagement.
Phelan: Yeah, there yeah I was just saying it more in the sense of you still need a person.
Phelan: There still needs to be a prompt generated by a person, no matter what these systems do. It's still going to require a person to ask it to do a certain thing. And that's where the coding stuff is. That's probably the most interesting one for me as a use case is because I don't really want to bother with learning the syntax of Python.
Phelan: All I want it to do is generate the, like the result. So I'm less concerned about like how beautiful the code is. I'm more concerned about run the script, do the thing and give me the result I want, which is good for dealing with like chat GPT and getting it to write code or getting it to build small apps.
Phelan: Getting it
Pip: to
Phelan: fix itself, understanding its own error messages that it's getting back and fixing those error messages is very useful saves me a lot of time. Putting the machines
Pip: together. That's what I've I've liked doing so far. And I think, [00:09:00] perplexity, we should bring up perplexity because it's like a, I love it right now.
Pip: I just, I I really like using it. I really like the interface. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it, it's one of the great tools to use for helping you. Cause it does different things than chat GPT, right?
Phelan: Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely, and it does a better job at citing its sources compared to the. ChatGPT, so at least you have some sort of link that you could follow through to see if it's completely making that up or not.
Pip: We see that in in search now, right? What's it called? SVG?
Phelan: SGE. SGE. Search generated content.
Pip: Okay. Yes. Search generated content. So we see it's changed the search engines change. So you now get that, but because they didn't come out with it first, do you think that brand loyalty might be to something else or is it about interface and how it works with you?
Pip: Because I might be, I might actually not be one of the many in this. I might be one of the few, but I think Gemini is [00:10:00] doing the best for the AI stuff so far. For how fast it is, how accurate it is. Yeah.
Phelan: Yeah, it's a toss up between Gemini and Co Pilot, right? And,
Pip: Co Pilot's just in things.
Pip: I went to Co Pilot on its own, and it wasn't great. But it's great in Zapier, and I don't know if it's in Make, but it's pretty cool.
Phelan: Yeah, it's Microsoft's offering and it does very, it's very similar to the Gemini, but without being How would I put it? It's very similar in the sense of what Gemini wanted to do, which is be in all of the tools that go with Google or Microsoft.
Phelan: It's their way of inserting this additional layer that's supposed to help you. Use Microsoft tools or Google tools and it's supposed to extend them.
Pip: What was, there was a, from, this is gonna, I'm old. Okay. But do you remember, you might not even remember. It was a little paperclip.
Pip: Clippy.
Phelan: Yeah,
Pip: Clippy was first. So it's like a Clippy.
Phelan: Yeah, it's [00:11:00] like Clippy, but not as like
Pip: old
Phelan: Yeah, antiquated and like it actually has some like Reasonable
Pip: so helpful and like in Zapier or Zapier Honestly, it took all the fear of using it away. So
Phelan: yeah that And now that I'm thinking about it, because Copilot and Zapier, I don't know if it's powered by Microsoft didn't Zapier.
Phelan: Yeah, I didn't look that up, but I'd be interested to see if there was like a partnership there. Because as far as I know, they're separate, but I could be entirely wrong with that. You could be. Which would be weird because they'd be using the branding from Microsoft, so I'd, that would be weird on their part.
Pip: Yeah, I have no idea. I just I'm just you can look that up because I know you're always interested in who owns what and who owns who, and it's actually a very smart way to go about things, because then you can see about, what people are thinking about, what people are doing. One of the things that I want to do, I'm gonna, Maybe try to [00:12:00] do it this weekend, although I have a lot of other stuff to do, but AI powered chat bot.
Pip: I want to put a chat bot on our computer or sorry, on our website that actually integrates in real time to have conversations. So you can do that, right? You can attack, you can make on the backend, you can have a system Chat GPT will be your assistant, right? The way you configure it. So if a question gets asked, it can look at either any documentation you have.
Pip: You can tell it, it has to look at the documentation. So this is making a chat GPT. But on the API side, yeah,
Phelan: and
Pip: then you attach it to something you're doing, and then it can, you can have it have a conversation, which is pretty neat. Yeah, I just, this stuff is so fascinating, right? You've used it.
Pip: I've used it. I think everybody's using it, but what are you you find it I like it for code, but I don't know [00:13:00] how to code and I did do. Need you. I need you. But, But for, Coding, because I don't understand downloading packets and things like that, and it gets pretty deep really quickly. And so let's keep this kind of high level where we, if you have a, what is it, an idea for an app, we can direct you to a something that can try to create it for you for free to, Try it, right?
Pip: That's one of my favorite ones so far.
Phelan: Yeah, though you're talking about bolt. new, which is good, but it doesn't do anything with a backend. So I tried to get it to do something with a database.
Pip: I sent you something yesterday that I think does something with the database.
Phelan: Yeah, it yeah, I'm sure that they're working on some more solutions to do stuff with.
Pip: I'm sure they have some. Like a database
Phelan: and backends. I'm just warning people now that if you go into Bolt and try to get it to do anything that has like a storage or user login, anything like that, it won't be able to do that.
Pip: Interesting. Which I am not. So I'm not that kind of [00:14:00] expert. I'm just, I'm the content marketer.
Pip: You're the technical marketer. In that I do, data driven strategies. I haven't actually used, there is personalization inside analytics, right? And I'm sure Gemini is going to be in there in about, Five seconds if it's not already in there. But cause I've stuffed data into chat GPT to get results and I've made some chat GPTs and that's super fun and super easy.
Pip: And very helpful to see what you can do, right? Yeah, so I don't know. I'm, I find it so exciting, like the personalization you can get out of it. What are you finding most fascinating about it?
Phelan: I think it's the one that I'm interested to see if I'm a little surprised that it hasn't been better is its integration into Google ads.
Phelan: I was expecting the like text generation and image. I wasn't, I didn't have my hopes up for their image generation just because Gemini's. Hit or miss with like [00:15:00] image creation. It's on the strong suit.
Pip: I agree with you on that I haven't tried it. Actually. I'm using oh my gosh So I'm using I wanted to share it.
Pip: It's It's back end of flux and flux is like an image creator And then I found another one yesterday from the guy I follow, Nico and I forget. I made some really cute little elephant pictures, which I really honestly, I find the image creation really fun. I use it every couple days to make images cause I completely suck at making images.
Pip: You give me, even if you give me a canvas, it doesn't, it just, I know people make fun of me about my image creation.
Phelan: Yeah I think that some of the, yeah, some of the AI image creations is okay for in small batches. I would say that, for just getting some stuff out the door for blog posts and stuff where it's not Really, the image is the focus.
Phelan: It's more it's like a visual representation of what's going on the page. [00:16:00] Then I think that's not a bad use case.
Pip: I think what perplexity uses flux to create its images and chat GPT, it, it does its own images and there are lots of GBTs trained. It uses dolly, right? That's it.
Phelan: Yeah. Dolly and and mid journey. It's other system, Dolly's one of them, Midjourney's the other. And so they're, they're just image creation tools that kind of rival Flux and they're all the big names that you hear about when you go look up anything on like image generation, AI stuff.
Phelan: Yeah.
Pip: And I, yeah, we're getting really into this. So we are taking our course to integrate this stuff. So our SEO course and our Google ads course. So we can talk about this because this is where it's going. There's lots of things to talk about here and lots of things to pay attention, but It's so crazy.
Pip: I think how AI has taken over everything. I don't know. I use it. How many times a day are you using it? I'm using it all day every [00:17:00] day to be honest. Yeah.
Phelan: Yeah, we're using it a few times a day. It's also it's one other thing that I wanted to mention when you said s SGE, the search generated Pages is that what that is it's a new wrapper on what Google was already doing because yeah, it's
Pip: a new pretty picture Like yeah, it's search engine results pages.
Pip: Now. I have to now I have to change everything to SV, what is it? SVG?
Phelan: S G E.
Pip: If I could get the acronym right. So search, I thought we searched generated.
Phelan: Engine.
Pip: Generated what?
Phelan: Engine.
Pip: Yeah. Interesting. And what does that in fact mean? It's a they had it in a sandbox I know for a number of years and I know the U.
Pip: S. got it before we did, but it includes Gemini into the search engine. Yeah. Interesting. And that's where the new layout is there. Yeah.
Phelan: But like the actual like code backend that actually is generating it. It's the same system. It's just because they use what we call AI, they use already for doing it.
Phelan: They just give it [00:18:00] parameters of when you search the web, these things are the market.
Pip: Yeah. The other thing is I have seen like in it that the ads are at the bottom of the page. They're not the top. So that's very interesting. Yeah, I don't know if that's just my use case. And I've noticed that when I go to the URL and search, you know how you do, you go google.com or whatever.
Pip: Yeah. It it doesn't use the SGE. It's still the regular serp. Do I still call it a serp?
Phelan: I would, it's you searched a search engine and it gave you results on a page, so Yeah,
Pip: Yeah. I
Phelan: would still call it that.
Pip: And I wonder, okay, so we're all using chat GBT conversationally, right? And we're using perplexity like conversationally, and I don't know if I'm using Google conversationally yet as much, like I still, I noticed if I search conversationally, sometimes I'll have to go to perplexity or chat GBT to get the answer.
Phelan: Yeah, generally for my own sake, I'm not really asking Google like a set of [00:19:00] questions and conversation. Usually when I go to Google, it's a part for something in the house that broke that I need to replace. So I'm like, typing in the name of this and like replacement arm you know that kind of stuff that it's just more it's very Specific generally i'm not really having a conversation per se.
Phelan: So that's just a lot of how I use google It's like I have a specific question. I go to google and I Get my answer.
Pip: Okay, so are you doing informational searches on Google, or transactional, or navigational? I know you're probably doing all three, but.
Phelan: Yeah, I'm doing all three to an extent. What I was talking about is informational ones, I'm usually like, have a specific question in mind that I go to ask Google.
Phelan: So it's not really, a question per se. I don't really usually have follow ups. If anything, I'm just clarifying my question or honing it in more so that it makes more sense what I'm, the answer I'm getting out of Google. Like it's not really something I'm having a conversation per se with.
Pip: Okay. Yeah. I, it's very conversational.
Pip: So I'm assuming that [00:20:00] long tail keywords are like going to be. Epic now, and that number that went from like 17 percent or then it went to 25 percent every year is just skyrocketed. Cause yeah, I don't know. I think everybody's going to have so much fun searching now and I think it's just brought some more liveliness to the search engines and to information.
Pip: I think everybody will learn a lot more, right? Yeah.
Phelan: Yeah. I think that there's going to be some good aspects. I think that. When all the dust settles and the hype of the VCs when they go on to the next thing, whatever that's gonna be, I think that it'll pro it won't be as numerous as it is now, but I think that it'll still be around.
Phelan: It's just gonna be much smaller than it was.
Pip: Yeah, I've heard things like there's just so many that so many things happening all at once that Eventually it will come down and like we're seeing open AI so that people are creating open sources for [00:21:00] different things.
Pip: And that's really gonna help it become democratized, right? So that we will all be using it to help us. Yeah it's crazy. It's I've seen what I've seen automaton thing. I call it an automaton. I'm sorry. wrong about that. It's you can create an assistant to help you do research.
Pip: And you can watch it doing the research on your screen on your computer, right? So I've seen that. That's really neato. I am not there yet. Cause I can't get that system up and running yet. Cause I don't know enough, but I think I think we're in for a fun yet bumpy ride.
Phelan: Yeah, I think that it's going to be interesting.
Phelan: Yeah. And I think when the sugar high of the VCs recesses, I think that's where it's really going to be interesting to see who can stand on their own without getting huge injections of cash from big companies. So I think that's when I'll be interested to see how it all [00:22:00] settles. I think that for me, that's what I'm looking out for.
Pip: Yes, so I was just thinking about something so you're just thinking that it's gonna calm down and it's just gonna get
Phelan: Yeah, I think it's gonna be normalized and be like just not the forefront just like a crypto bitcoins highest it's ever been for the price, but it took a while to get there But it's not the thing that people talk about as much anymore People don't talk like an average news about crypto and how it's gonna replace everything And so I feel that it's gonna be similar vibes because it's mostly, again, it's because venture capital is like doing a big injection of adrenaline into the system.
Phelan: And so all these people are like, Oh yeah, using the money and they're going really fast. But I'm just going to be interested to see what it all settles in the Adrenaline's worn off. How it's all going to shake out. I think that's where, it's a, you can look like a genius when someone's handing you a check for 20, 20 million and you're building a company like, yeah, that's [00:23:00] super.
Phelan: You can look like a genius then it's when you have to stand on your own two feet and really make the business sustainable and viable in the longterm. What's that going to look like? And so I, I had, I suspect that a lot of those companies aren't going to be able to make ends meet.
Pip: I think they're just.
Pip: I think the big players will win. There just might be a new big player. If we look at say like Apple, so I've noticed, I don't have a, an Apple Siri at home. I do have it on my phone, Google has a home. Alexa has a Nest. I don't know. No. It's a Alexa. Yeah.
Pip: And. It's what are, what's Apple doing, is Apple still a big player in all this because they have search, they are, they determine on an app, Apple phone, wasn't there some regulation about what apps showed up on your phone? It
Phelan: was, it was more that they were, they had a huge fight about with Epic Games about the paying out 30 percent of everything you earn in [00:24:00] app.
Phelan: There's a 30 percent tax because no one knew what to charge at the start of when it all the App Store happened. But it also, it's a, it's become a duopoly, right? You cannot exist as an app unless you get onto one or two App Stores. Apple and Google determine how you arrive there. And so that also gives them outsize.
Phelan: advantages, right? They could just say, no, you don't meet the requirements or we, we actually just decided you broke the terms of service. Yeah. So there's situations like that, that are not the best, but yeah, I'd say that
Pip: you can circumvent the app store. I'm ish, not for a phone. So the other thing is the phone is very interesting because.
Pip: I'm not using AI as much on my phone yet, right? So I think that's to come too, right? Or what does
Phelan: it look like, right? A lot of these are, it's probably gonna be there, but it's gonna fulfill a specific role. That's the vibe that I feel like it's gonna happen, where it's not gonna be a a does everything for you.
Phelan: I think it's more that hey, here's a specific task that it's [00:25:00] gonna be super helpful with doing.
Pip: I agree it's gonna need an overseer. I agree yeah, and I do agree that the, maybe there's a lot of money being thrown at it right now, and it and there's a race to, to, as many do figure it out, get it, get automations working. So it's pretty interesting. So I think wielding it, I think being a business owner right now in this space is pretty interesting, but I think being a marketer working for a company, like a big company might be fearful.
Phelan: Yeah, I would definitely if you're looking at a big organization and your, yeah, I would definitely be that would be the spot that I would be the most concerned with if you're a large organization and there and someone higher up is deciding to make big shake up in order to make quarterly profits or whatever, that's a position I don't envy someone being in.
Phelan: Cause yeah, you might be at the whims of something totally beyond your control that your boss just decides to [00:26:00] integrate it because it's a buzzword and they didn't really fully think through what it was beyond a buzzword. That part worries me to an extent. Yeah.
Pip: I think, so I think the conclusion, Oh, and we're out of time.
Pip: The conclusion is that it's here. We should be playing with it. We should learn as much as we can, if we're interested in it, and so that we can be the wielders of it. That's where I'm sticking to for now. I'm going to be playing around more and more with this. I do use it to help me create spreadsheets to upload to Google ads editor, things like that.
Pip: I've, I'm training my own. Chat GPTs. I do have a slide deck I was looking at that I'll teach you really quickly. It's super easy how to create your own. So if you're interested in that, send us a message. And we'll show you that the other things that, that is the conclusion. Really. We can give some real life examples of some AI and marketing, but the real conclusion is, one of us is paying attention to the politics.
Pip: Of it all. And the other is getting engrossed [00:27:00] in doing things and trying these different things. And both perspectives are very valid and interesting because it all boils down to the same things, which is, are we going to get to work in this field? What are we going to get to do? And how fast can we manage learning?
Pip: Because it's changing a lot.
Phelan: Yeah, I'd say there's a lot of exciting things out there and yeah, I would just say from my own perspective of I have tapered expectations of what it's actually going to be able to do and and just be aware of what it's limitations are.
Phelan: Cause there's always limitations.
Pip: Always limitations. It's true. Next week we are doing This Month in the World of Marketing and Reena and Greg will be joining us. If you don't know me, I'm Pip Seymour Digital Media and this is
Phelan: Phelan, also with Seymour Digital Media.
Pip: And we get on here every week and talk about something to do with marketing and we will see you next week, 11am Pacific.
Phelan: Bye. See you. Bye.
