Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08
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[00:00:00] Hi everyone. I'm Pip from C more Digital Media. You're listening to Know How Marketing Lab podcast. This podcast brings together different experts in marketing from our Facebook group, Cyberpunk Geeks Marketing Mixer. Each week we get on here and we talk about something, search marketing like Google ads or SEO, social media marketing from Facebook to TikTok or website marketing.
If you're a aspiring marketer, a business owner or entrepreneur, this podcast for you. We're going to share the best SEO search, social, uh, and website strategies. We share tips and hacks, Google ad strategies, what's going on in the current markets. Each week we discuss something exciting and awesome in marketing.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: today we're talking about project management trackers.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Not project management systems. What do you think, Rena? Systems or [00:01:00] trackers? Yeah, I think it's systems because you need to track more than, there's a lot of things to track. So system, yeah. So we wanted to talk about this because we know that so this is a talk for marketers or people who manage projects.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: And Some people are going to be better than us at this, but we wanted to talk about this because well, I've been like that real estate agent that constantly changes brokerages thinking it's the brokerage. That's the problem. But yeah, it's me and Rena, you have stuck to one. Yeah. I had a few systems set up.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: You can hear me? You can't hear me? It's me, not you. Can you hear me? Don't worry. Okay, good. All right, then I'm just going to start talking. So I had a few Okay, I'll stop talking. It's me, not you. Never mind. Go on, please. Okay, good. All right. Basically, I did try a few different things out in the early days, and I just found project [00:02:00] management systems to be super big and bloated and expensive, especially in that day.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: There weren't any real small priced projects. offerings available. It was, everything or nothing. So I did base camp for a while. I didn't know that. How was that? Yeah, I did. I didn't love it at the time, and I haven't actually reviewed it lately. So it might've changed if you think it's changed.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Please by all means put your thoughts in the comments below But for me, it was really hard to see all the projects at once You had a separate space for each project it was nice because you could put the clients in there, but sometimes you don't want the client seeing everything and and it was the communication was really difficult so sometimes You know, everybody has their own method of communicating.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Some people put things through email. Some people put things in the project management system. And then I had this issue with project management system and [00:03:00] then time tracker for invoicing. And then the third piece was the the communication. So I actually chose three different versions that are all synced together.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: And I decided to go with the version that made sense for me, because I don't probably everybody knows I got hit. I got hit by a car and, and so I needed to find something that was super simple to work, allowed me a bunch of different views and, And and so I actually went with Trello for my project management, fresh books for my time tracking and invoicing.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: And, and Slack for communication primarily. So those three things work together really well for me because, And I, cause I can still see all the projects at once. So I have all my projects. We, I have projects and programs for those of you that don't know. Cause it took me a while to figure this out too.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Anything that repeats month after month is a program, not a project, but it works the same way as a project. You still have [00:04:00] deliverables that are due within that month. So I have a programs board, a projects board, and A small projects board and a leads board. So I use, I actually ended up using Trello for managing my projects, my programs and my, CRM.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: That's exactly right. Yeah. Which is a customer con customer management system. Just just to make sure we have the acronyms out there. So yeah, that's right. That's right. And so one of the things that I wanted was something that was super visual. So it looks like a post it note. Each project looks like a post it note.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: It has all the checklists. I can assign the checklists. The bottom has an activity that becomes the, client CRM piece of it. So I can keep track of the client and all the phone calls and emails that happen. And then, and then you can. Do an add up on Trello, which I really love. If you've got your projects organized, I have my big projects are organized by three cards on the same column, [00:05:00] each, each contractor, designer and developer, each piece of the project has its own card and you can turn it into a Gantt form to view it, which helps me organize my development because I organized my project timeline according to development.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: So it takes a very specific amount of time for development. So then I usually go, okay, if we want to start development here, like when do we need to start design? And so I can see Carmen, my designer line up, my developer lineup. And then I just keep my developer pretty much back to back with projects. And then we organize the design around it.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Cause usually design doesn't. Quite take as much. And Trello works perfectly for you with FreshBooks. Are they attached? Yeah, no. What we do is every time there's a project or a program, it gets a project in FreshBooks. And and all of the contractors that are working on that program, or project log their hours.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: If they're internal staff, they log their hours directly into the project. And [00:06:00] then if we have external contractors, we have separated budgets for them. And then and then my project manager adds that time into the project overall so that I have a complete project organized according to all contractors and tasks, what kind of tasks.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: So then it makes it a lot easier to know if I've gone over budget, under budget or and then it helps me. Predict estimates more accurately in the future if I have all that information in one spot. So yeah that's how, I work it. Interesting. Cause we started out using Trello and then left and Trello changed.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: I think a year after we left, cause it's got that can ban style, right? The, And it's really it is a really nice view and I know ClickUp, I think maybe even Asana can do the same thing in a different view. But that, I think that view is actually called Kanban, right? Is that correct?
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Yeah. So [00:07:00] I, yeah. So for my big projects, I don't use it Kanban style. I use each project has its own card and there are three cards per project on the line so that I can see. I can see the, Gantt, view while my small projects where it's a lot of small little things that come in from our clients that is always organized on a Kanban and same with my programs.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Programs are always organized by Kanban and they're on three separate boards. Okay. Yeah I so I really struggled with project management systems. And, ha reminds me of a story. One day, if you're watching, ask me about the tree. But during this year, I changed project management systems from, I think I started from Trello.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: To I think we went with ClickUp. So I tried Asana, but didn't dig it. And ClickUp, we realized that everything we did in ClickUp ends up going into Google Sheets. So we were like, wow because we're doing SEO and Google ads. And [00:08:00] so all of a sudden then we were like, okay, let's just stay in Google Sheets.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: And we bought like this inexpensive, Sheet thing that, had macros that you could have your clients in. And it was really, good, but I think it overwhelmed some of our teams. Yeah. This is the dilemma is change management is always the dilemma. It doesn't matter if you're onboarding a project management system for the first time, if you can't get buy in from your team, it's very hard to make sure it remains accurate.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: That is absolutely true. So that's why for me, having a project manager was probably the single most liberating. Thing that I actually did for myself, which really impacted because project management, as we all know, if hopefully we all know by now is super connected to cashflow management, right?
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: So if you mess up on your project management or you get behind on something, then obviously your payments don't come in on time. [00:09:00] And that can really blow an agency out of the water. If you have too many. Yeah, exactly management that we moved accounting systems thinking that was a good idea and it, you know what I learned, I have to be in charge of it It is not, it needs fine detail tracking. And as I told someone today, if man, if your name is bookkeeper and, I'm not being told every day that there's a late payment, you're not going to have a job. But, yeah I, it's funny to think that cause we do. You do a different kind of project than us, right?
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Like you're doing more websites and websites have a start date and a, end date and a launch date. Yeah, we have projects and programs and I think SEO is definitely, and Google ads too, are both program programs. And that's a little bit of a different beast in a way. So how do you organize that in your project management system then?
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Painfully? No. We actually went we went international. [00:10:00] So we ended up hiring Steven a while back as and he was, and he is from South Africa and he's worked at 18 different agencies. His opinion was very validated and he really liked, like we, he we were, when he came on board, he was like, Ooh, maybe you should look at changing your systems.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: And I'm like, we've already looked at that. And he's I know a a system and you should check out these two systems and they're specifically designed for agencies. And so, yeah, I definitely bought in and it was as expensive as a sauna, which is not that bad.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: If you have to have a system, so yeah, I think on average it's probably about two grand a year. All right. So I pay monthly for mine and Actually, I have no idea how much I pay. I think it's about 90 something dollars for Trello. Okay. Which works for me, so that's all right. Yeah, the same as what you're doing.[00:11:00]
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Yeah. And it it's 91 and two cents. Nice. That's good. Yeah. Our so our systems is it perfect? No, but it doesn't give me what I need to see a lot more of. So we do our time tracking in that system. It's called chase, but it isn't very good. It's not I will tell you that number one, time tracking, fresh books is rockstar.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Yeah that's, a good one. is rock star. Yeah. I love it. Yeah. And am I said, I love fresh books a little bit. Why did we leave fresh books? Because we do multi currency and so we thought it was sold to us that, QuickBook does multi currency better. It doesn't, I don't think it does. It doesn't.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: No, I'm telling you, it just doesn't differently. And yeah, we've had to make some adjustments in there. So our accounting is a little bit more convoluted now. But so don't change. I think one of the biggest lessons we have to do [00:12:00] one of our it's the end of the year, so we got to do our lessons of the year.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Oh yeah, that's, oh yeah, that's right. I got so many this year, actually. So many this year. How about you guys? Oh, yeah. Yes. So many exactly. Okay. So some of the things you want to consider when you're organizing for A project management system is what are all the pieces that you need? So It is, I suppose it would be technically easier to track your projects in a project management system, but I like FreshBooks separate, separately, and we're just always checking the projects in FreshBooks and they line up, the project names are exactly the same in FreshBooks as they are in the Trello card.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: So it's really easy to find them and not get lost. And we have a very specific way of naming our projects. So that also really helps because the, Naming conventions. Absolutely. So that really helps so that you don't ever have duplicates or no one's guessing and putting time in the wrong spot, which is very helpful.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: The other thing you want to consider is [00:13:00] communication. How do you want to communicate with your team? We use Slack for conversation. We use Trello for, client management. So if something gets stalled, that information goes on the Trello card in the activity. If a client has given approval for something, that information goes in the activity, we'll just make a note by email, dated, whatever, and so we can go back and find it if we need it, or any, of that kind of stuff goes in the activity, and then our questions and our our thinking and all of that stuff goes into Slack, and each Slack channel has the exact same naming convention for our projects, so each project and each program gets its own Slack channel.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: And then the appropriate contractors are put into each channel. So that's how we organize it. So I, while there are three separate platforms, they're incredibly coordinated through the naming convention. I like that. That's, helpful. Yeah, I know. Okay. So project management [00:14:00] systems should have, or the things you want in them are things like time tracking if you can.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: And you want communication. Of sorts for each project. And what else? So there's time tracking communication. Checklists, some kind of checklist or task list or something like that is the mainstay. You want to be able to attach documents to it or have easy access to documents from it. So that's one thing.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: So I like Trello card for everything. Okay, I get that. Yeah, because each client, each of our clients gets they get an account in Chase, an account in QuickBooks they get an account in the Drive, and all of those things are attached. I know Quick, or Chase to the Drive is very connected. We use, a Google Doc for our, Project notes, so that we can go back Oh and we actually do a H two by date so that you can [00:15:00] use that. But we also are, yes, I like that right now. 'cause we just moved probably six months ago to our final tracking or our management system in Chase. We're just like learning how to use all the reports and Yeah.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: All the things. So Yeah, and I think that's one area that I'm. That my, my system is really great. It works. I've, we've tested it so many times and it's perfect. I love it. However I don't generate a lot of project reports from it. I usually generate some reports on fresh books for projects and programs just to check in and make sure that we're that the that the number of hours that we've allocated for different things is correct and doesn't need to be shifted.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: But I don't really, and I can also tell like how much how FreshBooks is great because you can assign different costs for each. Contractors. So I can really easily tell the costs on a project which [00:16:00] they weren't, we weren't able to do that even just a couple of years ago on FreshBooks.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: So that's a whole nother level of layer of information. But what kind of reports can you generate in what you're in your I'd like to know more about that. For one thing I was able to see. So one of the reasons I wanted to change systems was, and I know, we all feel this way if we're in marketing, we do a lot.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: We're running around. We're doing all these things all the time for our clients. We don't tell our clients. And we often, lots of things are out of scope. Lots of things are above and beyond and you, so we wanted to show our clients how much extra value we're getting. That was the biggest thing, right?
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Am I able to do that a little bit more now? I was more able to see that. The contractors were putting in their hours after a week, and I'm like, you can't do that. You can't do. So things like that just let's create a system. So I figured out also figured out exactly what you said earlier, which was people are putting hours in different [00:17:00] places, right?
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Like we have a morning meeting. Where is everybody doing that? So you definitely need to go over systems with people. And once you learn the system, you need documentation. I love, yeah, exactly. SLP is galore. But that's what I love about having Deanne on the team is that it's, she looks over all of that on a day to day where I'll, I might check in at the end of the month, that's where I'm looking to make sure that things are working about your product.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: I know. I'm sorry. I just, if I can if I, knew how amazing project management is, The addition of project management to my team would be, I would've done it years ago. I just didn't think I didn't think of that really as, not that I didn't understand it was valuable, but I didn't see it as billable hours.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: So as soon as I started organizing my pricing to reflect project management in, inside of the estimates and, giving that a budget, it was. Then I could actually have somebody do it. But up until that point, I [00:18:00] was thinking project management was my job and I didn't really. Track the hours for that because it's communication track.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: You're all yet. That's correct. So this has changed everything quite a bit. And, now we can offer a much higher standard of customer care, in fact, like that's where it comes down to, and it's just good for the brand, so that's the thing we have probably we're.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Right now, I think we can accept maybe one more client if it was of a certain caliber, but we wouldn't accept another client because the name of the game is Exceptional customer service and I mean do we do perfect? No but we try damn hard to do really well because if you're good at your job in marketing and you provide results People will leave you anyway, so don't, I don't think we should joke about that.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: But marketing is a, yeah, marketing is a particularly [00:19:00] difficult client retention. I do have some clients have stuck out for your, I had one client that was for like 12 years before they finished it with their business. And so you can get long term clients, but I have, one for seven years. They're still going, and, but they I, can consider them friends after so long, but yeah, and it's the good relationships that matter, right?
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Because a lot of people don't understand what we're doing. Yes. And therefore there's this entire group of. Business owners that sort of hop between marketing agencies and they'll do a year, they might do a couple or whatever they'll and they'll get to the next level and then they'll see some kind of service that they're looking to have or someone will come in.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: This is the other thing. And they're like, marketing is like a a piece of string. It's never really ever completely done. So however much we're doing is usually based on a budget and a package. And then somebody else will come along and say, Hey, you've [00:20:00] neglected this piece and It's true. It's, often true, but but we would be happy to take on that piece also.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: But that's usually the the new shiny thing that the clients usually go looking for at a different agency. I had a client and the system stream. So I had this client love, and they recently had to take a little break. Put a pause on their marketing. But when we started working with them, we were doing their Google ads, but we were doing the search ads and then, they, looked themselves up and they, somebody else or them, somebody had created local service ads, which are separate, but they're not.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: From the search ads, but the client is not going to know that. Yes. And so they got upset at us. So we were just like, Oh, we got to fix that. And we fixed it. Did we ever let the client really know? We did let them know there was separation, but that we'll take care of it. And it's very interesting industry that way.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: That totally. And you're right. I think that I like the [00:21:00] idea of marketing's like a string. Like I, we got asked yesterday we've done all the SEO things. This client we've been working with, and I was like now it's time to redo everything because it's changed. Yeah, SEO is ongoing because Google changes its algorithm and that's the thing that is the issue right there.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: I, I I had somebody It's coming up. Yeah, yeah. Yep. You're always needing to look at that strategy again and seeing what's better. And if there are other opportunities that have come up in the meantime, that maybe weren't there previously. Those are really important things to have your eyeball on.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: So yeah, I always find it really. Really interesting when, somebody says, Oh yeah, we had that done. And it's okay, and when, and how much did they do? And every time you update your WordPress site, you seem to end up with more. Code that needs a minification every time a client puts up a 10 blogs, then all those [00:22:00] files need to be compressed.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: And clients don't usually do if you want like the ultimate, to do your SEO, like full on, there are tools now and with chat, GBT, perplexity, things like that, you can actually write better than you would have ever written before. If you know the prompts, and so it does take just as long, I've discovered it can absolutely because because you need to add value to it.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: So someone said this morning that you need to write, you need to turn the content from AI into something that's more human. And I remember thinking about that and thinking, oh, that's an interesting way of putting it because That's intangible. How, do you decide what's human? And then I realized it's really about we've talked about this before.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: It's not me realizing it's this very well, but it's really about putting your own value on it so that it's different than all of the other posts in, the world that are on the same [00:23:00] topic, right? So it might be a case study that you could give a good example for it could be your own personal experience.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: So these are all the best practices. And then how does that translate into your own experience? And what did you notice that's different than what other people are saying? And when you read something like if you're watching this and you get to this point in the video, ask me for the sparkle prompt.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: There's a prompt that I have called sparkle. You send that to me. I haven't figured out how to do it. Oh, you just put it in chat. Press for I did and then I got something really weird, but I'll show that to you later. I So you have to put sparkle in and then you have to put like your blog posts that you want.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Oh, I understand. Okay I got it. I didn't understand. Okay Yeah, it's just but that's about the sparkle if you look at it. It's like I'm Pulling it through and finding out different things about it, but we're very off topic. So let's go back quickly. I know. So if you, stayed with us, we just hightailed it into [00:24:00] chat GPT.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Rodney actually in the Facebook group business marketing mixer turned around and let us know that there's a prompt you can put in. To chat GPT for managing a project. I'm going to try that after and see like interesting. I love that Yeah, so the world is changing right and all our systems are changing which just makes us able to be really good at Our jobs do a much better like I can do a much better job of this feeling now because I can put like an image in Gemini and get an alt tag if they don't have people in the image, right?
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: And I, it would be hard for me to describe an image properly. You try it. It it might sound easy, but I find it hard. So I love, actually, I find it super easy doing that, but that's my my Virgo showing up it's, I'm always corrected everyone else's. I'm like, no, that it's a woman who's wearing a white top and she's doing a yoga pose.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: She's doing this yoga pose, in front of a building, because [00:25:00] what you want to do with the alt text is paint the picture for someone who can't see. Yeah. Which I think is very beautiful when you imagine it, right? Yeah. Yeah. When you can describe things to other people to make them go, Oh, like there's a museum down the street.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: And I say, when people are like, Oh, what's it like? I'm like, it's like candy for the eyes. It's just, yeah, it's really interesting. But back to project management tools, I would say one of the things I would say is we have a couple of friends in marketing, go figure, who use spreadsheets still, or, I know somebody that still uses Basecamp.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: So whatever you choose, it's going to be what works for you. I would get a tour of people's systems. Marketing people aren't really able to show their project management systems well, because it does have client information and it's not pertinent or good idea for us to share client information all the time.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: We try to keep it private. But that being said, we can't help each other. And I use my own [00:26:00] business in our project management tool. So if anybody wants a tour of ours, we can show it. Reena, we should do a trade off or get a couple other people. Yeah, I don't mind. I've got some, yeah, I've got some fake, projects already set up.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: What I do on Trello that actually saves me a ton of time. And I create templated checklists for my tasks. So I have a website rebuild. I have a website, new build. I have SEO onboarding. I have. All of the stuff, all of the checklists. We have a Google ads master sheet. We have an SEO on page master sheets W website quality on it.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Anyway, so many things, but if you want to learn more about the things that we can give you, come to our paid group. Other than that, we'll talk about that again down the road. And yes, Rena, we are out of time. What would you have to tell? You can't just say join a paid group. Where do they find it? Oh, it's not available yet.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Give it a week or two. Okay. Okay. In a week or two, we'll drop that [00:27:00] link in, the in the business marketing mixer, Facebook group. So if you're watching this elsewhere and you want to come and find that group, then that's where you can find us. Yeah. Yeah. We're there every week. We, so we do a live every Thursday at 11, talking about.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Marketing topics, whether that be for marketers or for business owners and people who love marketing and next week, Oh, what's next week. Did I put the four and did somebody, yeah, just give me one second. I'm almost there. Are you I'm close. Yeah. It's I just didn't go to the Facebook group.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: And if you go to the top of the Facebook group, it's brand consistency across platforms. Oh, that's it is Greg and me who will be giving that Greg and I will be giving that look at that. I just learned so if you're with us right now, I just learned I did mess up the banner because it says With everyone we're going to be talking about leveraging ai and marketing.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: That's not true. Oh, just a second Let's just check that Oh, yeah, that's not true. [00:28:00] Okay. I just double checked it. But the brand consistency next week is what we'll be talking about. I will be watching, so come join me. Watch Reena and Greg as they dive into the brand stuff. Yeah, I've got a great example.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: I've got a great example that I got from TELUS yesterday. I'm very excited about it. Do you need to share screen? Oh, I might be, I might want to do that next week and I know how to even, so we'll do that right on. Okay. All right. We'll see you next week. If you have any questions, concerns, needs, wants, just message us in the Facebook group or on any of our channels and we will make sure to get back to you.
Restream.io on 2024-11-07 at 11.01.08: Talk soon.
