Navigating the WordPress Roadmap: Future Trends and Directions

Season #8 September 05, 2024

0:00 - Introduction & Guest Introduction
1:18 - History of WordPress & Greg's Involvement
3:00 - The Latest WordPress 6.6 Update & Community Concerns
5:20 - WordPress: Open Source vs. Automatic
7:00 - The Evolution of the WordPress Block Editor
10:00 - Traditional Themes vs. Block Themes
13:10 - Impact of Block Themes on Site Speed & Builders like Elementor
16:00 - Customization with the Block Editor: The Future of Theme Development
19:00 - How Block Themes Affect Web Design for Businesses
21:30 - Advanced Features in the Block Editor with Cadence
24:00 - Community Feedback on WordPress Changes
27:00 - Future of CMS and Market Share
29:00 - Upcoming: Improving User Experience & Accessibility

[00:00:00] Pip: Good morning. We are here today to go over navigating WordPress the roadmap. So just, this is going to be all about the history, what to expect, what's coming next, and we got our expert, this guy, that guy, Greg. So a lot of today's going to be about questions, but Greg, introduce yourself.

[00:00:20] Greg: Hello everyone. I'm Greg McKinnon with the original 72 creative and we're a full service website, graphic design and digital marketing firm in Vancouver

[00:00:28] Pip: interesting. And I'm Pip, as [00:00:30] Seymour Digital Media, and we collaborate because marketing is a group effort. So if you're joining us, pipe in, say hi at some point. And we should be shared into the group and then pinned to the top of the group. So if you're not seeing us or you're looking for us, come join the Facebook group, Cyberpunk Geeks Marketing Mixer.

[00:00:49] Pip: We have a secret, which we'll tell you at the end cause we'll share our secret then it's not a secret. Greg, that's not a secret.

[00:00:57] Greg: not a secret.

[00:00:59] Pip: Secret. Okay. [00:01:00] Okay, Greg. So why this came up? I'm like, why this topic came up? Because you seem to pay attention to everything WordPress and I, you started talking about it and you mentioned the originators name.

[00:01:18] Pip: And so I wanted to go first through the history of WordPress, how it started, even how you got involved. So take it away.

[00:01:27] Greg: Yeah I do try as [00:01:30] much as possible to stay up on WordPress, everything WordPress since I'm building WordPress every day. Sometimes it's a little bit difficult to keep up with what's going on just because I'm in the daily building of sites constantly, so news and things like that I gotta find time for.

[00:01:51] Greg: Yeah. But this topic kind of came out of the [00:02:00] last release of WordPress 6. 6, when the community There seemed to be a little bit of a, I don't want to say backlash, but a disappointment with some of the WordPress community on the direction and where WordPress is going or how it's being developed.

[00:02:26] Greg: And people were. I [00:02:30] saw some people talking about whether or not they thought Automatic was really driving the development of WordPress based on Automatic's goals as a business, as opposed to the WordPress community as an open source. platform and input from the community. I had, so it initially, there was a couple of things that came [00:03:00] out when 6.

[00:03:00] Greg: 6 was released, but I haven't heard as much in the last little bit, but there was a flurry of questions on, the direction and who's steering WordPress.

[00:03:14] Pip: So WordPress is a open source software, right?

[00:03:20] Greg: Yes.

[00:03:20] Pip: And you mentioned a company that owns it, or how does that work? Because open source means anyone can go and edit it or use [00:03:30] it.

[00:03:47] Greg: with the community. And Automatic is also a business that gets clients on WordPress on the, so there's WordPress. [00:04:00] com, which is the automatic version, the automatic company who gives you websites on the WordPress.

[00:04:09] Greg: com version, which is a paid service. And then there's WordPress. org, which is the open source, just download WordPress and do everything yourself. So Automatic runs WordPress. com and you can pay them to get your site. It's a slightly different flavor of [00:04:30] WordPress. There's some things that are locked down.

[00:04:32] Greg: Like you can't go to WordPress. com and do whatever you like, like you could with Automatic. Just downloading wordpress. org completely yourself and just doing whatever you want to it a thing. So

[00:04:48] Pip: Now so yeah, 'cause on wordpress.org you can make a WordPress blog, right? With Word, it would be whatever your username or whatever [00:05:00] your name you want is.wordpress.com, right? Oh, wait, that's the.com, not the.org.

[00:05:06] Greg: yeah, wordpress. org is just the place where you can learn about WordPress, the open source content management system and download the software and see plugins that are available and the themes that are available for it all completely free wordpress. com. Is where you would go where [00:05:30] you could it's like the Shopify a thing you go to Shopify You sign up you start paying monthly or whatever package you want And they hold your hand and they do things for you and it's all hosted there and you can select templates from their you know premium templates there and you know get assistance from The wordpress.

[00:05:54] Greg: com people to, to build your site. So it's a more catered type of [00:06:00] service, but it's a pay service. Whereas the wordpress. org, you just download it yourself. You can install it on whatever host

[00:06:08] Pip: and you don't, do you recommend them as a host? I don't usually, they're not my first go to. Okay. [00:06:30] Silence.

[00:06:35] Greg: and your needs for your site.

[00:06:38] Pip: So are you saying that the company that owns wordpress. com makes all the decisions for wordpress. org? Or is it the community that makes the decisions about how the open source is going?

[00:06:52] Greg: That was what came out of that last release was some people were trying to we're [00:07:00] suggesting that maybe automatic, the company behind WordPress itself is, has, And does most of the development of the application maybe they have more, obviously they have more input and direction into where the application is going, but is it too much because they are a business and it.

[00:07:27] Greg: Is an open source application [00:07:30] and how much are they actually listening to input of the open source community on suggestions and where wordpress is going or are they really looking at wordpress as this is where we want to take it. This is where we are taking it and Maybe not as listening to the open source community and people who use it where they want it potentially to go features and stuff like that.[00:08:00]

[00:08:00] Pip: So give me an example Like, where is the community wanting to go and where's, what's the company doing and how do, I guess a lot of people feel this way about WordPress and about the direction. And how does the community have any pull, is another question.

[00:08:15] Greg: The community should have pull. It's a, it's an open source application and, WordPress should be developed based on what the users in the community want the application to be within [00:08:30] like a guideline, like you, the WordPress community can't just be like, Oh we want it to be like this now, and go off in some complete different direction.

[00:08:40] Greg: So automatic is there also to, to make sure that. The overall goal of the application is is achieved. I would say, I don't know how much input they actually do take from the community, and this is why the question came up. [00:09:00] So one of the things that I had heard about was basically they're developing the block editor and block themes.

[00:09:12] Greg: And a lot of the interface on the development to move that direction for WordPress has a much different, user interface for all of that new new functionality. [00:09:30] And so some of the community has been crying for keep the admin UI the same throughout. Don't have old UI in some places and then new UI in other places.

[00:09:46] Greg: They feel like for a better experience for all users that the UI doesn't jump around. So if you're using a block theme, part of your WordPress admin [00:10:00] experience is what people have been used to for the past probably five years.

[00:10:07] Pip: Years

[00:10:08] Greg: And then the new UI for the block editor and block theme is completely different.

[00:10:15] Pip: is that what I'm seeing when I use because I, we use similar programs to you and I'm now seeing this weird. Words. It's all the page stuff is all squi it's super different.

[00:10:28] Greg: yeah, it's a so [00:10:30] yeah, so that's basically the new the newer admin interface that you're seeing in the block experience, the block theme experience and so people, depending on where you go at in any section of the admin, sometimes you'll be seeing that new you I.

[00:10:51] Greg: And sometimes you'll be seeing the old UI and they really are wanting WordPress to be like, if we're changing the UI of the admin [00:11:00] interface, change it everywhere. Let's not have it mismatched and because that just confuses people who are trying to use the application.

[00:11:13] Pip: I agree. Is this where the integration of AI is coming in and confusing things? Or is it they've actually made a new interface and this is how they want it to be? Because I know change is hard and that's sometimes why we don't like things. But! [00:11:30] I would really I don't like the new it's oh, it feels way more overwhelming to me, but maybe that's just cause I'm not a web dude.

[00:11:40] Greg: I don't think that it has anything to do with the introduction of A. I. or the use of A. I. It's really a case of having a new interface for a A new feature in WordPress, the block themes and them not having [00:12:00] that new interface throughout the entire application. They've left the old stuff the old way, and they've put the new stuff, this new admin.

[00:12:11] Greg: interface way. So just they're developing this new stuff and implementing a new UI layout in that, but not touching any of the old, and it's causing a little bit of confusion. I think when people are using the block theme because like you [00:12:30] said, you, You get in there and all of a sudden you're presented with this new layout, and it works differently than the old UI and having both in there, I find is causing confusion for people.

[00:12:47] Pip: I did feel really confused, actually pretty overwhelmed, and just I just got to get what I need done. I don't understand what's going on here. When did we add a new plugin? I didn't know about that's what I actually thought. So isn't that funny? Because I do [00:13:00] notice there's some AI integrations in there.

[00:13:03] Pip: I'm not sure about the automations. And what about the themes and customizations? Has that changed?

[00:13:09] Greg: For the block themes, definitely you're getting that new UI experience and the way that you that you develop your site using a block theme is completely different from how you used to use a traditional theme that has the [00:13:30] customizer where you just go into the customizer and you have the side.

[00:13:33] Greg: A panel of a bunch of sections where you can click into and Okay that I can change my colors here. I can change my fonts here. I can You know, change my post layout there and that type of stuff. The block theme editor is basically creating your entire website in that block theme builder experience.[00:14:00]

[00:14:00] Pip: Is that going to get rid of theme set or no, like, how's that going to work? Ooh

[00:14:05] Greg: themes will definitely be more lightweight because really a theme will be A set of styles that you maybe have predefined but where you where you add your navigation. Where you add your logo the [00:14:30] way you set up your headers and footers it's all done with the block building experience instead of it being pre programmed into the theme and then just going through settings to, turn things on or off.

[00:14:48] Greg: You're actually building it yourself with the blocks available in the block in the block builder.

[00:14:55] Pip: Will that make it oh, goodness oh hold on one second. Can you create your [00:15:00] arena because she's calling. So which means there might be an issue. Cause she knows we're live. So yeah, we'll get that checked right away. That is quite interesting. So I'm wondering when you say the themes are more lightweight, does that mean there'll be faster?

[00:15:13] Pip: Or what about Elementor or the big heavy ones that people use?

[00:15:19] Greg: Yeah. So page builders, if you're using a page builder, you will still have an old an old style theme,

[00:15:29] Pip: Yeah.

[00:15:29] Greg: [00:15:30] not a block. You can't maybe I shouldn't say that. I would assume if you're using a block theme, You're probably not going to use a page builder like Elementor, but you probably still could and just use the block theme to, to build your header, footer and theme.

[00:15:54] Greg: style. But then when it comes to the page, building out your pages, [00:16:00] you could probably still use your preferred page builder instead of the blocks. But I would assume most people, if you're using a block theme and building your site with blocks, you're probably going to build your entire site with the block builder, not install another page editor to

[00:16:18] Pip: okay, so like the, we're talking the beaver builder, is that done then? Or the, I had the muffin builder. I liked origin, site origin was the builders I used. So builders are going to [00:16:30] be passé. Ooh, that's a great.

[00:16:34] Greg: WordPress is trying to move towards a system that you don't need those.

[00:16:43] Pip: Okay.

[00:16:44] Greg: That's the whole reason behind the block editor is to basically get your page editing abilities up to the same as what these page builders could do. The [00:17:00] flexibility that they had. I do see eventually WordPress will go and people will just get used to the block editor and not bother installing a page builder because the block builder basically does You know, 90 percent of what those page builders do.

[00:17:24] Pip: Okay. So there's a couple of really big things in here before we get to like security [00:17:30] and third party integrations and all that but so what happens to people who business owners or people that manage their own sites, which no, you shouldn't I've learned just so you know but For those people that have a website design and stuff and the block builders come into play and business owners sometimes or people want to mess around and learn, right?

[00:17:50] Pip: Especially for people who learn. So is there going to be this cross between some pages are going to have the block builder and some pages will be the theme [00:18:00] builder and there'll be like, it'll be a mishmash of stuff in there?

[00:18:05] Greg: Think of it as two different things, right? You can pick a traditional theme or you can pick a block theme. The only difference is how the theme gets set up, how you create your menus, your headers, your footers your overall theme styles, right? You can go the traditional route, which basically gives you a lot of people are using really highly [00:18:30] customizable.

[00:18:31] Greg: Themes where you can go into the customizer and pick colors and set fonts and, tick on or off a bunch of settings that make the overall theme look and act slightly different depending on how you do it. The block theme is essentially a complete do anything you want. So it's a it is a step up from current themes where you're basically picking [00:19:00] from settings, but maybe have not complete control over the entire header or footer or other elements of the theme.

[00:19:09] Greg: The block themes, you build it completely from scratch with the block editor. And so that's all theme related. Then when you're actually building pages or creating posts on your site, then you can also use [00:19:30] the block builder to create those pages on your site, right? Cause that's the content within the page, not.

[00:19:38] Greg: Not the header, footer, theme related stuff. It's basically just a progression for WordPress to further implement. the block editor within WordPress to give you that high customization option to do and set up [00:20:00] your site however you want all using the block editor.

[00:20:10] Greg: You're muted.

[00:20:12] Pip: Do you like the most common phrase now said in the world according to digital. So do you like the block editor

[00:20:23] Greg: I have been using the block editor ever since it was released because [00:20:30] I am more of a WordPress purist. I tried not to install plugins just for the sake of installing plugins. As a web designer, web developer for over 20 years when I've built web WordPress sites, I had maybe more ability to set up websites for clients where [00:21:00] they didn't just, okay, I set it up.

[00:21:02] Greg: Here's a theme that we've created and then go put all your content in that one big, text block that used to be available for WordPress, right? I was able to set things up so that clients could have. different layouts and do things without the use of page builders. When page builders came around and gave you a little bit more flexibility [00:21:30] on how you could style and create your content on your page it was just such a drastic change from that big, text block that you could just do from former WordPress, like old WordPress that people were like, Oh my God, this is amazing.

[00:21:48] Greg: We can do all these new layouts. So they became super popular really quick, but I never used them because I was able to, as a developer. create [00:22:00] more advanced layouts for clients that, you know, and tell them, put this stuff into the editor, put this into this section using custom fields.

[00:22:10] Greg: We'll create the page. A lot of the page layouts didn't come out cookie cutter, like most WordPress sites. So I never used WordPress the plugins for page builders and was, against them always because I knew how heavy they were how much code [00:22:30] they loaded on the site and drag down your page speeds and things like that

[00:22:35] Greg: then when the block editor came out, cause WordPress saw.

[00:22:39] Greg: The progression of, how people wanted to edit their, the flexibility of editing their content and creating layouts, they introduced the block editors so that it had similar functionality to be able to do those more advanced layouts like the page builders. Because it was default WordPress, [00:23:00] I just started using that for for creating all of my pages and sites.

[00:23:08] Pip: Okay. What about the so for instance, I know you use cadence. Will you still be using cadence once the block editor is like full in there?

[00:23:17] Greg: It is full in there, and I do use cadence as my starting point to customize sites for clients and I completely use the block editor [00:23:30] with the assistance of an additional block plugin to extend the block options. within WordPress. Cause Cadence has a a block plugin to, to give you more advanced features of blocks to throw into your site.

[00:23:50] Pip: Okay. And what are like, what are some give me an example of a more advanced feature.

[00:23:54] Greg: The default blocks for instance, for just a paragraph of [00:24:00] content or a heading, the default block is either a heading block or a paragraph block. But the settings that you can use for those blocks you can change the color, you can change the size, you can bold, you can do normal things like that for text.

[00:24:21] Greg: But if you install an advanced Block plugin, like cadence advanced blocks. You can use a [00:24:30] similar text or heading block that give you way more options to style the text, change it to par, change it to a paragraph, to change it to a span, a diviv. a heading have a background color have highlighted text.

[00:24:49] Greg: There's just a lot more options that you can have with with it because the default one is a [00:25:00] little bit, still a little bit more limited in the settings that you can use to, to make changes to that block's functionality or layout or style.

[00:25:09] Pip: Yeah, how does the community feel about all the changes really, you think on a general level?

[00:25:17] Greg: All the changes to WordPress, it's rough. I think for the most part, the direction of WordPress is still good. The question was really like, what is maybe [00:25:30] the order of where things are going,

[00:25:34] Pip: are doing.

[00:25:34] Pip: I know

[00:25:35] Greg: And

[00:25:35] Pip: who are younger and older,

[00:25:37] Greg: and also depending on, the user feedback and the community how much is that being.

[00:25:47] Greg: Considered for things that are being put into WordPress.

[00:25:53] Pip: Do people often, you think, send them in suggestions or anything? Can

[00:25:57] Greg: Oh, all the time. I'm yeah. [00:26:00] WordPress is like the number one CMS in the world, right?

[00:26:04] Pip: Yeah.

[00:26:05] Greg: power is almost 40 percent of the internet. So I'd be shocked if there's not a ton of,

[00:26:12] Pip: That's a big market share.

[00:26:14] Greg: it's huge.

[00:26:15] Pip: Yeah. I, and isn't it funny because it is my preference. Like when you talk about SEO and things like that it does come down to tiny things that make me prefer, I like more control and I, but I think that people use other [00:26:30] things cause they think that they don't have to worry about things like image weight and things like that, but they do which we've learned, but I just wonder, like, how are they maintaining market share?

[00:26:41] Pip: Because they must have lost some over the years with Squarespace and Wix and Magenta and Magenta might not be one. Is it one? Drupal's kind of passe. Yeah, they didn't make it. They're like the Blackberry of Canada.

[00:26:54] Greg: Is that what they call them? I don't know. I

[00:26:56] Pip: No. That's just what I'm saying. That's so mean. I'm so sorry. I don't know. [00:27:00] Drupal was overwhelming for me. But there are people that you, Pete, there's a lot of content management systems, CMSs, right? Yeah, Zoho has one even.

[00:27:10] Greg: I think because WordPress is beginnings started in 2003, we're like 21 years into this application. And because it was open source and anybody could download it and use it, it just, is by far the most [00:27:30] used application and continues to be.

[00:27:33] Pip: Yeah. And I, that says something about market share at the beginning. And I think that's why some advertisers try to target small beings. Yeah, there's rules against that. Let's quickly dive. We got, oh, we're over. Damn. We missed accessibility and inclusivity and what they're doing there.

[00:27:49] Pip: And yeah, and then business and enterprise. And I think we got it. Most of it all though. I'm really excited about using the new theme. I think a lot of people are are block editor, but [00:28:00] Greg, I'm going to probably need your help.

[00:28:03] Greg: Okay.

[00:28:04] Pip: With all of that, because it is a little bit more now, so if y'all are looking for a web designer, I don't know if but this guy, Greg he's all right, he's all right.

[00:28:13] Pip: So Greg, before we leave, I did pro,

[00:28:18] Greg: Oh, you got muted again.

[00:28:21] Pip: that was weird. I didn't, I maybe I'm not supposed to say anything. Unless you watch the replay or you're here with us now, you won't know this, but we're gonna change [00:28:30] things up. We're just working on some stuff, but I think we are changing our group name because we've been around for a while and we think it's time for a change.

[00:28:39] Pip: Greg, we're not, are we telling people yet?

[00:28:41] Greg: We could just tell people that maybe we're changing because Cyberpunk Geeks Marketing Mixer is a little bit of a tongue twister. I don't know.

[00:28:49] Pip: It is a tongue twister. It is. It's, I always say great name because I came up with it, but great or long, funny name, but great people. And, but it doesn't, it doesn't really [00:29:00] match us any more or we just have some things we want to change and it's time for a refresh.

[00:29:06] Greg: Yeah, I think the new name for me is basically going to be more straight to the point. This is who we are without the trying to be a cyberpunk or a geek or whatever.

[00:29:18] Pip: Yeah I was going to go for a cowboy theme, but I, poo pooed, you guys poo pooed it. And I don't really dig cowboy music. So there's that. But okay. Besides all that. So we'll talk about that more later. We're going to go. What's going on next [00:29:30] week?

[00:29:31] Greg: I know it because I'm doing it.

[00:29:35] Pip: What is it? What is it?

[00:29:36] Greg: It's going to be all about improving user experience, navigation and usability on your site.

[00:29:42] Pip: Oh, I'm so coming to that. And are we talking accessibility too?

[00:29:47] Pip: Yes. Yeah. Okay. And you're doing that with Rina, right?

[00:29:51] Greg: yes.

[00:29:53] Pip: All right. So if you're joining us next week or catching the replay, let us know. We would love to know, and we will see you next week. All [00:30:00] right. Bye.

Episode Transcript

Audio Only
===

[00:00:00] Pip: Good morning. We are here today to go over navigating WordPress the roadmap. So just, this is going to be all about the history, what to expect, what's coming next, and we got our expert, this guy, that guy, Greg. So a lot of today's going to be about questions, but Greg, introduce yourself.

[00:00:20] Greg: Hello everyone. I'm Greg McKinnon with the original 72 creative and we're a full service website, graphic design and digital marketing firm in Vancouver

[00:00:28] Pip: interesting. And I'm Pip, as [00:00:30] Seymour Digital Media, and we collaborate because marketing is a group effort. So if you're joining us, pipe in, say hi at some point. And we should be shared into the group and then pinned to the top of the group. So if you're not seeing us or you're looking for us, come join the Facebook group, Cyberpunk Geeks Marketing Mixer.

[00:00:49] Pip: We have a secret, which we'll tell you at the end cause we'll share our secret then it's not a secret. Greg, that's not a secret.

[00:00:57] Greg: not a secret.

[00:00:59] Pip: Secret. Okay. [00:01:00] Okay, Greg. So why this came up? I'm like, why this topic came up? Because you seem to pay attention to everything WordPress and I, you started talking about it and you mentioned the originators name.

[00:01:18] Pip: And so I wanted to go first through the history of WordPress, how it started, even how you got involved. So take it away.

[00:01:27] Greg: Yeah I do try as [00:01:30] much as possible to stay up on WordPress, everything WordPress since I'm building WordPress every day. Sometimes it's a little bit difficult to keep up with what's going on just because I'm in the daily building of sites constantly, so news and things like that I gotta find time for.

[00:01:51] Greg: Yeah. But this topic kind of came out of the [00:02:00] last release of WordPress 6. 6, when the community There seemed to be a little bit of a, I don't want to say backlash, but a disappointment with some of the WordPress community on the direction and where WordPress is going or how it's being developed.

[00:02:26] Greg: And people were. I [00:02:30] saw some people talking about whether or not they thought Automatic was really driving the development of WordPress based on Automatic's goals as a business, as opposed to the WordPress community as an open source. platform and input from the community. I had, so it initially, there was a couple of things that came [00:03:00] out when 6.

[00:03:00] Greg: 6 was released, but I haven't heard as much in the last little bit, but there was a flurry of questions on, the direction and who's steering WordPress.

[00:03:14] Pip: So WordPress is a open source software, right?

[00:03:20] Greg: Yes.

[00:03:20] Pip: And you mentioned a company that owns it, or how does that work? Because open source means anyone can go and edit it or use [00:03:30] it.

[00:03:47] Greg: with the community. And Automatic is also a business that gets clients on WordPress on the, so there's WordPress. [00:04:00] com, which is the automatic version, the automatic company who gives you websites on the WordPress.

[00:04:09] Greg: com version, which is a paid service. And then there's WordPress. org, which is the open source, just download WordPress and do everything yourself. So Automatic runs WordPress. com and you can pay them to get your site. It's a slightly different flavor of [00:04:30] WordPress. There's some things that are locked down.

[00:04:32] Greg: Like you can't go to WordPress. com and do whatever you like, like you could with Automatic. Just downloading wordpress. org completely yourself and just doing whatever you want to it a thing. So

[00:04:48] Pip: Now so yeah, 'cause on wordpress.org you can make a WordPress blog, right? With Word, it would be whatever your username or whatever [00:05:00] your name you want is.wordpress.com, right? Oh, wait, that's the.com, not the.org.

[00:05:06] Greg: yeah, wordpress. org is just the place where you can learn about WordPress, the open source content management system and download the software and see plugins that are available and the themes that are available for it all completely free wordpress. com. Is where you would go where [00:05:30] you could it's like the Shopify a thing you go to Shopify You sign up you start paying monthly or whatever package you want And they hold your hand and they do things for you and it's all hosted there and you can select templates from their you know premium templates there and you know get assistance from The wordpress.

[00:05:54] Greg: com people to, to build your site. So it's a more catered type of [00:06:00] service, but it's a pay service. Whereas the wordpress. org, you just download it yourself. You can install it on whatever host

[00:06:08] Pip: and you don't, do you recommend them as a host? I don't usually, they're not my first go to. Okay. [00:06:30] Silence.

[00:06:35] Greg: and your needs for your site.

[00:06:38] Pip: So are you saying that the company that owns wordpress. com makes all the decisions for wordpress. org? Or is it the community that makes the decisions about how the open source is going?

[00:06:52] Greg: That was what came out of that last release was some people were trying to we're [00:07:00] suggesting that maybe automatic, the company behind WordPress itself is, has, And does most of the development of the application maybe they have more, obviously they have more input and direction into where the application is going, but is it too much because they are a business and it.

[00:07:27] Greg: Is an open source application [00:07:30] and how much are they actually listening to input of the open source community on suggestions and where wordpress is going or are they really looking at wordpress as this is where we want to take it. This is where we are taking it and Maybe not as listening to the open source community and people who use it where they want it potentially to go features and stuff like that.[00:08:00]

[00:08:00] Pip: So give me an example Like, where is the community wanting to go and where's, what's the company doing and how do, I guess a lot of people feel this way about WordPress and about the direction. And how does the community have any pull, is another question.

[00:08:15] Greg: The community should have pull. It's a, it's an open source application and, WordPress should be developed based on what the users in the community want the application to be within [00:08:30] like a guideline, like you, the WordPress community can't just be like, Oh we want it to be like this now, and go off in some complete different direction.

[00:08:40] Greg: So automatic is there also to, to make sure that. The overall goal of the application is is achieved. I would say, I don't know how much input they actually do take from the community, and this is why the question came up. [00:09:00] So one of the things that I had heard about was basically they're developing the block editor and block themes.

[00:09:12] Greg: And a lot of the interface on the development to move that direction for WordPress has a much different, user interface for all of that new new functionality. [00:09:30] And so some of the community has been crying for keep the admin UI the same throughout. Don't have old UI in some places and then new UI in other places.

[00:09:46] Greg: They feel like for a better experience for all users that the UI doesn't jump around. So if you're using a block theme, part of your WordPress admin [00:10:00] experience is what people have been used to for the past probably five years.

[00:10:07] Pip: Years

[00:10:08] Greg: And then the new UI for the block editor and block theme is completely different.

[00:10:15] Pip: is that what I'm seeing when I use because I, we use similar programs to you and I'm now seeing this weird. Words. It's all the page stuff is all squi it's super different.

[00:10:28] Greg: yeah, it's a so [00:10:30] yeah, so that's basically the new the newer admin interface that you're seeing in the block experience, the block theme experience and so people, depending on where you go at in any section of the admin, sometimes you'll be seeing that new you I.

[00:10:51] Greg: And sometimes you'll be seeing the old UI and they really are wanting WordPress to be like, if we're changing the UI of the admin [00:11:00] interface, change it everywhere. Let's not have it mismatched and because that just confuses people who are trying to use the application.

[00:11:13] Pip: I agree. Is this where the integration of AI is coming in and confusing things? Or is it they've actually made a new interface and this is how they want it to be? Because I know change is hard and that's sometimes why we don't like things. But! [00:11:30] I would really I don't like the new it's oh, it feels way more overwhelming to me, but maybe that's just cause I'm not a web dude.

[00:11:40] Greg: I don't think that it has anything to do with the introduction of A. I. or the use of A. I. It's really a case of having a new interface for a A new feature in WordPress, the block themes and them not having [00:12:00] that new interface throughout the entire application. They've left the old stuff the old way, and they've put the new stuff, this new admin.

[00:12:11] Greg: interface way. So just they're developing this new stuff and implementing a new UI layout in that, but not touching any of the old, and it's causing a little bit of confusion. I think when people are using the block theme because like you [00:12:30] said, you, You get in there and all of a sudden you're presented with this new layout, and it works differently than the old UI and having both in there, I find is causing confusion for people.

[00:12:47] Pip: I did feel really confused, actually pretty overwhelmed, and just I just got to get what I need done. I don't understand what's going on here. When did we add a new plugin? I didn't know about that's what I actually thought. So isn't that funny? Because I do [00:13:00] notice there's some AI integrations in there.

[00:13:03] Pip: I'm not sure about the automations. And what about the themes and customizations? Has that changed?

[00:13:09] Greg: For the block themes, definitely you're getting that new UI experience and the way that you that you develop your site using a block theme is completely different from how you used to use a traditional theme that has the [00:13:30] customizer where you just go into the customizer and you have the side.

[00:13:33] Greg: A panel of a bunch of sections where you can click into and Okay that I can change my colors here. I can change my fonts here. I can You know, change my post layout there and that type of stuff. The block theme editor is basically creating your entire website in that block theme builder experience.[00:14:00]

[00:14:00] Pip: Is that going to get rid of theme set or no, like, how's that going to work? Ooh

[00:14:05] Greg: themes will definitely be more lightweight because really a theme will be A set of styles that you maybe have predefined but where you where you add your navigation. Where you add your logo the [00:14:30] way you set up your headers and footers it's all done with the block building experience instead of it being pre programmed into the theme and then just going through settings to, turn things on or off.

[00:14:48] Greg: You're actually building it yourself with the blocks available in the block in the block builder.

[00:14:55] Pip: Will that make it oh, goodness oh hold on one second. Can you create your [00:15:00] arena because she's calling. So which means there might be an issue. Cause she knows we're live. So yeah, we'll get that checked right away. That is quite interesting. So I'm wondering when you say the themes are more lightweight, does that mean there'll be faster?

[00:15:13] Pip: Or what about Elementor or the big heavy ones that people use?

[00:15:19] Greg: Yeah. So page builders, if you're using a page builder, you will still have an old an old style theme,

[00:15:29] Pip: Yeah.

[00:15:29] Greg: [00:15:30] not a block. You can't maybe I shouldn't say that. I would assume if you're using a block theme, You're probably not going to use a page builder like Elementor, but you probably still could and just use the block theme to, to build your header, footer and theme.

[00:15:54] Greg: style. But then when it comes to the page, building out your pages, [00:16:00] you could probably still use your preferred page builder instead of the blocks. But I would assume most people, if you're using a block theme and building your site with blocks, you're probably going to build your entire site with the block builder, not install another page editor to

[00:16:18] Pip: okay, so like the, we're talking the beaver builder, is that done then? Or the, I had the muffin builder. I liked origin, site origin was the builders I used. So builders are going to [00:16:30] be passé. Ooh, that's a great.

[00:16:34] Greg: WordPress is trying to move towards a system that you don't need those.

[00:16:43] Pip: Okay.

[00:16:44] Greg: That's the whole reason behind the block editor is to basically get your page editing abilities up to the same as what these page builders could do. The [00:17:00] flexibility that they had. I do see eventually WordPress will go and people will just get used to the block editor and not bother installing a page builder because the block builder basically does You know, 90 percent of what those page builders do.

[00:17:24] Pip: Okay. So there's a couple of really big things in here before we get to like security [00:17:30] and third party integrations and all that but so what happens to people who business owners or people that manage their own sites, which no, you shouldn't I've learned just so you know but For those people that have a website design and stuff and the block builders come into play and business owners sometimes or people want to mess around and learn, right?

[00:17:50] Pip: Especially for people who learn. So is there going to be this cross between some pages are going to have the block builder and some pages will be the theme [00:18:00] builder and there'll be like, it'll be a mishmash of stuff in there?

[00:18:05] Greg: Think of it as two different things, right? You can pick a traditional theme or you can pick a block theme. The only difference is how the theme gets set up, how you create your menus, your headers, your footers your overall theme styles, right? You can go the traditional route, which basically gives you a lot of people are using really highly [00:18:30] customizable.

[00:18:31] Greg: Themes where you can go into the customizer and pick colors and set fonts and, tick on or off a bunch of settings that make the overall theme look and act slightly different depending on how you do it. The block theme is essentially a complete do anything you want. So it's a it is a step up from current themes where you're basically picking [00:19:00] from settings, but maybe have not complete control over the entire header or footer or other elements of the theme.

[00:19:09] Greg: The block themes, you build it completely from scratch with the block editor. And so that's all theme related. Then when you're actually building pages or creating posts on your site, then you can also use [00:19:30] the block builder to create those pages on your site, right? Cause that's the content within the page, not.

[00:19:38] Greg: Not the header, footer, theme related stuff. It's basically just a progression for WordPress to further implement. the block editor within WordPress to give you that high customization option to do and set up [00:20:00] your site however you want all using the block editor.

[00:20:10] Greg: You're muted.

[00:20:12] Pip: Do you like the most common phrase now said in the world according to digital. So do you like the block editor

[00:20:23] Greg: I have been using the block editor ever since it was released because [00:20:30] I am more of a WordPress purist. I tried not to install plugins just for the sake of installing plugins. As a web designer, web developer for over 20 years when I've built web WordPress sites, I had maybe more ability to set up websites for clients where [00:21:00] they didn't just, okay, I set it up.

[00:21:02] Greg: Here's a theme that we've created and then go put all your content in that one big, text block that used to be available for WordPress, right? I was able to set things up so that clients could have. different layouts and do things without the use of page builders. When page builders came around and gave you a little bit more flexibility [00:21:30] on how you could style and create your content on your page it was just such a drastic change from that big, text block that you could just do from former WordPress, like old WordPress that people were like, Oh my God, this is amazing.

[00:21:48] Greg: We can do all these new layouts. So they became super popular really quick, but I never used them because I was able to, as a developer. create [00:22:00] more advanced layouts for clients that, you know, and tell them, put this stuff into the editor, put this into this section using custom fields.

[00:22:10] Greg: We'll create the page. A lot of the page layouts didn't come out cookie cutter, like most WordPress sites. So I never used WordPress the plugins for page builders and was, against them always because I knew how heavy they were how much code [00:22:30] they loaded on the site and drag down your page speeds and things like that

[00:22:35] Greg: then when the block editor came out, cause WordPress saw.

[00:22:39] Greg: The progression of, how people wanted to edit their, the flexibility of editing their content and creating layouts, they introduced the block editors so that it had similar functionality to be able to do those more advanced layouts like the page builders. Because it was default WordPress, [00:23:00] I just started using that for for creating all of my pages and sites.

[00:23:08] Pip: Okay. What about the so for instance, I know you use cadence. Will you still be using cadence once the block editor is like full in there?

[00:23:17] Greg: It is full in there, and I do use cadence as my starting point to customize sites for clients and I completely use the block editor [00:23:30] with the assistance of an additional block plugin to extend the block options. within WordPress. Cause Cadence has a a block plugin to, to give you more advanced features of blocks to throw into your site.

[00:23:50] Pip: Okay. And what are like, what are some give me an example of a more advanced feature.

[00:23:54] Greg: The default blocks for instance, for just a paragraph of [00:24:00] content or a heading, the default block is either a heading block or a paragraph block. But the settings that you can use for those blocks you can change the color, you can change the size, you can bold, you can do normal things like that for text.

[00:24:21] Greg: But if you install an advanced Block plugin, like cadence advanced blocks. You can use a [00:24:30] similar text or heading block that give you way more options to style the text, change it to par, change it to a paragraph, to change it to a span, a diviv. a heading have a background color have highlighted text.

[00:24:49] Greg: There's just a lot more options that you can have with with it because the default one is a [00:25:00] little bit, still a little bit more limited in the settings that you can use to, to make changes to that block's functionality or layout or style.

[00:25:09] Pip: Yeah, how does the community feel about all the changes really, you think on a general level?

[00:25:17] Greg: All the changes to WordPress, it's rough. I think for the most part, the direction of WordPress is still good. The question was really like, what is maybe [00:25:30] the order of where things are going,

[00:25:34] Pip: are doing.

[00:25:34] Pip: I know

[00:25:35] Greg: And

[00:25:35] Pip: who are younger and older,

[00:25:37] Greg: and also depending on, the user feedback and the community how much is that being.

[00:25:47] Greg: Considered for things that are being put into WordPress.

[00:25:53] Pip: Do people often, you think, send them in suggestions or anything? Can

[00:25:57] Greg: Oh, all the time. I'm yeah. [00:26:00] WordPress is like the number one CMS in the world, right?

[00:26:04] Pip: Yeah.

[00:26:05] Greg: power is almost 40 percent of the internet. So I'd be shocked if there's not a ton of,

[00:26:12] Pip: That's a big market share.

[00:26:14] Greg: it's huge.

[00:26:15] Pip: Yeah. I, and isn't it funny because it is my preference. Like when you talk about SEO and things like that it does come down to tiny things that make me prefer, I like more control and I, but I think that people use other [00:26:30] things cause they think that they don't have to worry about things like image weight and things like that, but they do which we've learned, but I just wonder, like, how are they maintaining market share?

[00:26:41] Pip: Because they must have lost some over the years with Squarespace and Wix and Magenta and Magenta might not be one. Is it one? Drupal's kind of passe. Yeah, they didn't make it. They're like the Blackberry of Canada.

[00:26:54] Greg: Is that what they call them? I don't know. I

[00:26:56] Pip: No. That's just what I'm saying. That's so mean. I'm so sorry. I don't know. [00:27:00] Drupal was overwhelming for me. But there are people that you, Pete, there's a lot of content management systems, CMSs, right? Yeah, Zoho has one even.

[00:27:10] Greg: I think because WordPress is beginnings started in 2003, we're like 21 years into this application. And because it was open source and anybody could download it and use it, it just, is by far the most [00:27:30] used application and continues to be.

[00:27:33] Pip: Yeah. And I, that says something about market share at the beginning. And I think that's why some advertisers try to target small beings. Yeah, there's rules against that. Let's quickly dive. We got, oh, we're over. Damn. We missed accessibility and inclusivity and what they're doing there.

[00:27:49] Pip: And yeah, and then business and enterprise. And I think we got it. Most of it all though. I'm really excited about using the new theme. I think a lot of people are are block editor, but [00:28:00] Greg, I'm going to probably need your help.

[00:28:03] Greg: Okay.

[00:28:04] Pip: With all of that, because it is a little bit more now, so if y'all are looking for a web designer, I don't know if but this guy, Greg he's all right, he's all right.

[00:28:13] Pip: So Greg, before we leave, I did pro,

[00:28:18] Greg: Oh, you got muted again.

[00:28:21] Pip: that was weird. I didn't, I maybe I'm not supposed to say anything. Unless you watch the replay or you're here with us now, you won't know this, but we're gonna change [00:28:30] things up. We're just working on some stuff, but I think we are changing our group name because we've been around for a while and we think it's time for a change.

[00:28:39] Pip: Greg, we're not, are we telling people yet?

[00:28:41] Greg: We could just tell people that maybe we're changing because Cyberpunk Geeks Marketing Mixer is a little bit of a tongue twister. I don't know.

[00:28:49] Pip: It is a tongue twister. It is. It's, I always say great name because I came up with it, but great or long, funny name, but great people. And, but it doesn't, it doesn't really [00:29:00] match us any more or we just have some things we want to change and it's time for a refresh.

[00:29:06] Greg: Yeah, I think the new name for me is basically going to be more straight to the point. This is who we are without the trying to be a cyberpunk or a geek or whatever.

[00:29:18] Pip: Yeah I was going to go for a cowboy theme, but I, poo pooed, you guys poo pooed it. And I don't really dig cowboy music. So there's that. But okay. Besides all that. So we'll talk about that more later. We're going to go. What's going on next [00:29:30] week?

[00:29:31] Greg: I know it because I'm doing it.

[00:29:35] Pip: What is it? What is it?

[00:29:36] Greg: It's going to be all about improving user experience, navigation and usability on your site.

[00:29:42] Pip: Oh, I'm so coming to that. And are we talking accessibility too?

[00:29:47] Pip: Yes. Yeah. Okay. And you're doing that with Rina, right?

[00:29:51] Greg: yes.

[00:29:53] Pip: All right. So if you're joining us next week or catching the replay, let us know. We would love to know, and we will see you next week. All [00:30:00] right. Bye.

[00:30:01] Greg: Hi everyone.

Navigating the WordPress Roadmap: Future Trends and Directions

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